Sagat Q&A: Ask simple questions here!

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1861

I look immediately in front of the opponent. If you play fighting games a lot you just “Know” where to look.

A big part of playing Sagat is always just expecting your opponent to jump. You can improve your reactions if you read the play. Some people sometimes comment on how I can punish things with Ultra - like a whiffed Jag kick - but really I’m expecting them to do it and I’m buffering the input so it looks better than it actually is.

It’s not so Godlike when you can understand your opponents tendencies. So what looks like an amazing reaction is really just a button press because I’ve done the work already. Watch Bonchan the way he always moves Sagat up and down, he’s always buffering a TU then playing footsie’s in between.

Reactions and reads are probably the most important part of any fighting games. They trump execution by miles.

1862

I noticed that Bonchan does crouching short on wake up just about every time he gets a soft knockdown. I was just wondering what the theory behind that was, and what he does not to get DPed every time. Is he slightly delaying it or something? Anyway, I just picked up Sagat recently and I’m trying to clean up a lot of things in my game so I was just wondering about this. Thanks!

1863

He does meaty cr.lk os with cr.hp after tiger uppercut (dash up cr.lk is a meaty setup which beats wakeup buttons/throw/neutral jump/and the cr.hp os catches backdash), and doesnt get DPd every time because he doesnt play idiots who dp all the time.

1864

That’s the backdash option select. He also has another one he uses on shoto’s especially Ryu, he does cr.lk OS tiger knee but at maximum range. If Ryu wakes up with tech or buttons the cr.lk hits and the TK hits both hits, if he blocks it turns into a frame trap that’s safe, if he focus attack it’ll smash the glass and I think it can sometimes catch the backdash.

I use this one quite a bit. It basically covers a heap of options and is easy to do.

It also depends the character, meaty short OS block recovers in time to make slow reversals miss like Rose spiral or Bison PC etc.

1865

ok cool. Thanks guys. I’m about to get in the lab right now and work on this stuff.

1866

Ok so after some extensive time in the lab, I now realize that I don’t know what the hell I’m doing with this wake-up short os. Is there a sticky that goes over inputs for Sagats OSs??

1867

Just do dash forward cr.lk and do cr.lk+cr.hp again as you would when you link it. Since fierce has more priority than short, it should come out if your short whiffed, if it connected though, then you get to link it into another short.

Also what highlandfireball said, that isnt really an OS so its easier to do, but it is very good indeed and I should probably start using it more :smiley:

1868

I think you’ve confused him maybe, you can’t push cr.lk and fierce at the same time since cr.lk is a link not a chain, cr.fierce is pressed in between the cr.lk’s.

It feels more like a target combo, cr.lk > cr.fierce > cr.lk

If the cr.lk hits another one will come out, it they back dash the fierce will come out. It’s tricky to get down, more often than not you’ll find that you can do the first cr.lk and then fierce just fine it’s getting the timing for the second cr.lk after the fierce that’s the tough part.

Sagat also has a backdash Ultra option select involving cr.jab.

1869

Ok I see. I was wondering about the c.lk+c.hp because I tried after it was suggested but I didn’t think sagat had chainable lights so ofcourse I was getting c.hp everytime. ok thanks.

1870

I’ve been looking and not found (sorry if this is documented somewhere), but what is the timing for Sagat fuzzy and/or meaty fireballs? So far I have:

Forward throw, Tiger knee (which?), HP tiger shot
Back throw, dash, HP tiger shot

So, I know things change with proximity to corner, obviously. And apart from sweep and DP, he has no other hard knock downs (and sweep and DP leave the opponent too close for safe fuzzes most of the time), so to set up fuzzy fireballs for their wake up you have to guess whether they are going to quick rise or not…

But I still feel I should be maximising my damage by getting that free chip, and I should be doing fuzzy high tiger shots for the best set up.

So, EX tiger shots that send the opponent full screen, and tiger knee knock downs. Is there a specific sequence that I can perform to try and catch the opponent quick rising? And then do I have back up options if they don’t?

OR, am I completely barking up the wrong tree here, and there are no guaranteed fuzzy fireballs for anything other than throws, possibly also because of, for example, how far away from you the opponent was when you sent them full screen with the EX fireball which will change the timing? And then tiger knee depends on strength, which hits landed (how meaty it was), and whether they were crouching or standing when it hit, etc.?

And as such, Sagat has to play most of this by ear, and it’s only with practice and experience will I get better to grips with this? It’s not a science with Sagat, like oki set ups with other characters, but more of an art?

It’s just so frustrating to miss out on free chip and pushback when the fireball has already passed an opponent by when they wake up. Players must have set plays and sequences they perform (whether they actively think about it in that way or not), I just cannot find anything on this or any surrounding subjects on fireball sequencing techniques!

1871

OK, I watched some Bonchan in Topanga, and it seems after every single ex tiger shot that hit, he did dash forward hard tiger shot and it was meaty if they quick rose. I’ve gone into training room to confirm this…

Tiger knee hits in all sorts of ways with all sorts of kick back… So very variable, but always dash forward once if not twice.

In training room post ultra seems to be low light tiger shot.

After all meaty tiger shots at the moment I am going for Kara high hard tiger shot or going for slightly delayed angry scar to check what they are doing to react accordingly and then it’s back to standard neutral game…

Anyone have any thoughts on the above? :slight_smile:

1872

Honestly, it’s more about feel than mechanics. Most good Sagat players will always Tiger Knee after a throw to build meter and gain ground (or run a safe jump) and most good Sagat’s will almost always dash after ANY kind of advantage or KD to take the screen back. That’s the whole point of playing Sagat - to win more screen than your opponent.

Meaty shots are not hard if you know your KD state’s. It’s not an essential part of learning Sagat, more something that just comes to you. Don’t be afraid of people getting up, use you’re judgment, there’s nothing that they can do if you play smart. If you throw a meaty Tiger Shot within range of an EX move or Ultra then obviously you are asking for trouble.

1873

Hey I was wondering if I could get any advice from the more advanced 'gat players about applying combos.

I’m a reasonably solid intermediate, had some obstacles to hamper my development with (irl family and career means street fighter isn’t the absolute center of my life, and a battle with chronic tendinitis in both hands has limited practice time some). Sagat was the character I played when learning how to actually play.

Right now, the foundation of my game is trying to throw smart shots, do solid anti-airs, basic mix ups/confirm strings on wakeup, and press good buttons at smart ranges. However, much of my damage comes off of single hits, and the main combos I end up using are the basic 2-1 punishes and the sagat hit confirm.

I understand with good shots, punishes, AA’s and patience I can get pretty far with those fundamental tactics, but ss I’m trying to grow more advanced, I want to move more towards getting some more damage off of stray hits.

Any advice on what combos I should try to implement in my game next, and what situations to use them in?

Thanks!

1874

It’s difficult to know where you stand currently, so all this might seem obvious…

First, I see no problem with not relying so much on combos with Sagat. Fundamentals go a long way with him. IMHO, basic 2-in-1 punishes, c.lk bnb combos and TU-FADC-etc. are the only absolutely needed ones.

If you mean to optimize damage or to get a little more technical, I’d focus on these :

  • complete your AA skills with a reliable kara TU. I don’t mean learning to do it, I mean any jump anywhere on your half of the screen should be punished.
  • link c.lk,c.mp for a lot more damage on the bnb. Plinking helps here.
  • exTU, U1 (characters, situations)
  • c.mk, LTS (hit confirm) FADC,c.mp TU/TK

I’d also add a few basic OS into the mix esp. anti backdash (c.lk, c.hp~c.lk).

1875

Combo’s are important IMO because if you look at all of the Elite Sagat players in the world, they have the ability to flip the switch from zoning game to pure rush-down offence when needed(because Zoning isn’t as strong as it was in vanilla).

Good thing with Sagat is that you don’t need to know too many Combo’s pretty much these will have you covered…

Cr.lk cr.lk .crlp(mp in some situations) DP

Cr.lk Cr.lp(cr.mp in some situations) TK or TS Fadc

Cr.Mp Cr.lp xxx

Cr.mp XXX

And Basic Ryu style Fadc combos

The best advice I can give for combos is just to do them in a trial based form in Training mode. I.E trying to do the combo ten times in a row without failure, then push it to twenty times with failure. Mix in random block to help with the hit confirming, and eventually add the counter hit combos into it as well.

Be confident in your rushdown/combos. Sagat’s cr.lk is so godlike that if you hold down back on someone’s wake up and use it you get an amazing meaty move that is safe if timed right, that also combos if hits(option select it with crouch tech).

XX in TS xx FADC Dp is also pretty important punish. Doesn’t do a ton of damage, but enough to at least make a decent punish. You often see Bonchan hitting with a cr.lp into low ts into cr.mp DP.

1876

I don’t understand how to do kara tiger shots with f+hk. I do them just fine with f+lk by doing a half circle to make sure I won’t get a TU but it still happens with f+hk

1877

You’ll never get a raw Kara TS with f.hk if a tiger shot is not on the screen.

1878

Easiest way to kara for me is like Joe says, wait until the shot has just about disappeared then strum HK either on its self or with another button.

1879

Personally I think the next level Sagat players are just better at using Sagat’s limited frame traps and converting single hits into combo’s where as most players will just take the single hits. Things like crouching normal, stand up quickly, then press down into cr.mp for the counter hit or the same type of trap but with cr.lk. It’s all about the subtle quick pauses. Bonchan does this like a rock star. Also converting the long range normals with 2 bars into damage. Bonchan again is king at fishing for a whiffed normal that he can catch with a cr.mp/cr.mk into TS then FADC into combo.

The thing is you’ve got have the balls to hope the other player isn’t mashing on buttons and to momentarily let go of block sometimes.

Combo’s don’t really mean much to Gat. Another thing worth mentioning, again for me personally is that when I analysed my replay defeats I would always lose the biggest amount of damage and my momentum from a bad close Tiger shot. I also took this info across to the replay channel and studied some of the high level Sagats and right enough, a read jump from close range is one of the major scenario’s Sagat get’s his health bar depleted because it’s not just the damage it’s the KD. I know that sounds simple but it’s not just about not throwing bad shots, it’s about still zoning but without fireballs.

I quickly learned that I was better off protecting that space with normal’s and making sure my shots were un readable. Improving with Sagat is like a life long job but that’s why people play him IMO because he has no autopilot like a bunch of characters. You have to think with the King.

1880

This. Bad TS are a major cause of life loss, but the reward from baiting opponent jumps (lp feints, getting up and down, changing TS rythm…) is even greater. It is very useful at medium skill level.