Hi, I just wanted to share the Xiao Hai vs Snake Eyez set before the uploader’s channel gets deleted. There’s a lot going on in all the matches, so I’d like that all of us here analyse it and spot the key elements that made the difference between Xiao’s Gat compared to the countless Sagats that Snake has bodied before. Here it is
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Nice one Garuda. I made a thread asking about the things people noticed in the matchup that xiao hai was able to capitalize on. If you notice anything, feel free to mention it.
I briefly watched the matches without concentrating, but what stood out to me was three main things.
Literally nothing went without being punished that could be punished. I was seeing top end reactions from Xiao Hai- he knew every piece of frame data possible.
Shots were not really used in zoning style, he was quite comfortable using the other tools and using the shots as supplements to keep gief back.
St.hk recks Gat, but everyone new this one already.
This is the key to high level Sagat play for me. Being comfortable at mid range where traditionally Sagat is poor. Bonchan has pretty much mastered this and it’s the reason why his Gat is a step above.
Krimzn, I actually think they are responding to your audio cue. Basically train yourself to UF on response to “TIGER”. If this is the case, then your feints won’t be effective. I think it was discussed somewhere in the third strike threads that humans respond faster to audio cues then visual. For a long time, I thought you could never jump Sagat as Gief, until I noticed the vulnerability of frame data of the low tiger shot. It would be even easier for characters with faster jumps than the grapplers.
Yeah, I like Highlandfireball posts. I thought, why do the high tiger when they just crouch! After trying to “understand” Sagat. That’s pretty much the function of the high tiger shot, somewhat guards against jump ins. But still not as reliable, as by chance, they could clear it, depending on the speed you use. For Zangief to clear it on audio cue, is very difficult, close to not possible, or at least for me in training mode. But I never tried it with EX meter cue, visual response is slower, so probably won’t make a difference.
Snake Eyes barely jumped to contest those low tiger shots, which meant Xiaohai had no need for high tiger shots. I feel if your in range, the risk and reward is in favour of the jumper because they are risking only a high tiger shot, but benefit if its a low tiger shot, or they luckily clear the high tiger shot Olympic pole-vault style! They just need a long enough and deep enough early jumping attack. For Gief, I recommend Jumping HP or MK.
I Swear, if you can’t HK kara Tiger Uppercut those hadoukens, Sagat’s jumping MK into EX Tiger Uppercut is so good. The range looks killer.
What stood out for me, has got to be the cr.LP o/s Low Tiger.
He whiff punished LPGH and Snake Eyez trademark, whiff cr.MK into SPD, except he got caught in a huge low tiger FADC combo, when he was half way through Zangief’s cr.MK!!! So we sadly didn’t see the SPD that time.
After reviewing the video a few times. There is one punish scenario that comes to mind. And that’s whiff punishing Gief’s far cr.HK, which is highly space dependant. I noticed cr.HP was Xiaohai’s go to punish. At times, he was on the money, but countless times, he was too slow, and Snake Eyez would block. Note to self, good place to insert a reversal Lariat or EX SPD or EXGH or U1? I’m sure, Sagat has far better punishes against that. Surprised Xiaohai went for cr.HP.
I thought heavy dropped gat after USF4 came out…I distinctly recall him mentioning he was moving to T hawk after the High TS and ultra nerfs.
Either way, glad he stuck it out…i still watch the “tribute to the eyepatch” combo vid he did on youtube…great music and great combos. Any links to the matches and what tournament this was?
Heavy stopped playing as much but he didn’t drop Gat as far as I know so it’s an awesome effort. Was happy to see his name up there. Shame the two Aussies got each other. I couldn’t watch due to family stuff. I’ve played Brodsta a few times, very aggressive player, but Heavy is great in the Bison match ( if that’s who Brodsta played?)
If you look up Shadwloo showdown 6 on you tube there are top 16 matches. Gacki vs K brad and Gachi vs Yun plus the others not involving Sagat.
So… how do you beat Guile these days? I’m pretty sure it has become one of Sagat’s worse matchups in the game. It used to be somehow even back in AE2012 but now, when you face a GOOD Guile, I feel like you can’t do more than two mistakes or you’ll lose.
Guile can keep up with the fireball war pretty decently and he can corner Sagat just by throwing plasma and walking forwards. You can’t jump since his antiairs are so good, so… is that matchup even winnable?
guile is a pain. the best strategy i find is to out-turtle him. (makes for a very exciting match) but yeah…basically play the zoning game until he feels the need to jump. being a charge character, he will feel the itch first because Gat has the better fireball game. Get a lead and just stay zoning, keep him out and hang on for dear life.
one of the most boring and frustrating matchups out there.
Guile I think is even, I thought with the high tiger shot nerf it might slip into a slightly bad match but really like krim says it boils down to zoning and getting a read. A good strat (against anyone really) is to look at the meter situation, Guile has no focus breaker without an EX bar (unless he’s sitting on down, at which point you should respect him anyway). Focus and focus dash some of those limbs, and get a punish, get your lead then let the match flow on.
Sagats AA are just as good as Guiles, and basically if you get put in the corner from Guile it means you’ve not been on point with your shot game. Either character getting put in the corner in this match is heavily disadvantaged.
I appreciate the help, but I don’t think it’s that simple. I mean, I’ve definitely tried that, but smart Guiles will use that forward knee to gain space (a lot, actually) and will instantly keep throwing booms. I mean, it’s completely safe and there’s isn’t too much that Sagat can do about it. Then, when he’s close, he will start using normals after throwing a light sonic boom (St. Fierce, Cr. Lk, etc). That’s my main problem with this matchup: Guile can put Gat in the corner very easily.
Also, Sagat having a better fireball game is debatable. High tiger shots are definitely faster, but since Guile will always be sitting charging his booms, at mid and close range, most of the time you’ll be using Low TS, which are slower and have more recovery. A good jump in by Guile and bam. Big punish
I can easily win against Guiles who just sit and throw fireballs from the other side of the screen, expecting you to come at them or jump. They’re used to do that against the whole cast. But against those who actually do zoning and know how important it is to gain space in this matchup (usually Guiles above 3200 and such), it’s a whole different story. I’ve found myself counterpicking with Ryu and getting better results
Just saw bonchan doing cr mk , tigershot, FADC into ultra 1! Didnt know you could do that. I tried it in training mode but found that it works conditionally.
opponent must be crouching
Cr mk must connect at maximum or near maximum distance (not sure why this is)
Cr.mk xx ex shot FADC ultra is the Leslie special, he’s awesome at that but I never use it myself.
You can still jump on guile , also when throwing shots you’ve got to kara or dash forward , I think it’s just a very boring space dependant match. Depends what you find tough.
what’s the best way to punish people who spam jab whenever you try to frame trap them or do a throw mixup?
I do the cr lk wake up pressure with sagat on a downed opponent, but im playing this dude who would block the cr lk and i just end up pushing him out with a ts after 2 cr lks. If i try to mix it up by dashing in and grabbing, he just starts spamming jab and there goes my offense.
The same happens when i do a lv 2 focus and he blocks it. I dash in to grab, and he mashes jab and there goes my offense.
I tried to uppercut the jabs but its not optimal, as the likelihood of the jab recovering before the uppercut connects is pretty high and then im pretty much open for whatever punish.
