Sagat Improvement Thread

So jist of the dev blog is that Sagat is now a character that requires more risk…but with work is still the best or second best character in the game. Well I mean u can’t really go on dev blogs to tell where a character is going to fall in a tier list but if they truly believe that Sagat still has what he needs to be the big powerful character you remember him (with a few more openings and less free shit) then I’m all for it. Sagat has unique properties to his specials and normals that no other character has so tools wise he’s still better than like a good half of the cast alone. Plus people are finding out new shit about angry scar all the time. I’m glad I ended up picking Sagat just to counter a couple characters because now I actually like him as a character.

They are on crack. Still number 1? When he got nerfed harder then anyone and Gouki received no nerfs? What? Stfu capcom. Tired of your nonsense.

Akuma still has really low health and loop is “harder” to do. :lol:

Real talk, son. Now you sound like I do on AIM, LOL. In all seriousness, he may not be as bad as I initially thought due to the damage reduction on all characters not named Guile, Claw, and Dhalsim, but declaring his top tier status already is laughable when we are fully aware of all the tools that he has lost, and Angry Scar does not seem as though it will compensate for any of those lost tools. Tiger Cannon is all right. Certainly, though, Tiger Destruction still appears to be the ultra combo of choice because of its damage. HP TU -> FADC -> f+HK -> TC is pathetic. Guile’s new FK -> FADC -> SH probably does more damage.

And I am with you on Akuma. Why does this character (supposedly still) have one of the best zoning options in the game along with the best wake up metagame and escape options? I mean, not only can he zone extremely well, he can also apply high pressure on wake up that is almost entirely free of risk. Then this “pressure” can result in a combo, which resets the situation. If you guess wrong again, you are most likely stunned, and you can have fun chasing him the rest of the round provided that you have any life left to begin with.

That is dumb. If Sagat and Ryu have to go down, Capcom ought to take Akuma with them.

Where is Akuma going to go? He already has shit health. If you nerf a character like Akuma it’s easy for him to be bad. Ultimately Ryu and Sagat had to get docked down for the better of the game. IMO Capcom messed up when they made the fundamentals of the game the way they did. If they had brought the game up better fundamentally Ryu and Sagat wouldn’t have to be so radically changed on a gameplay standpoint. Though they decided to completely change the fundamentals of SF and well…shit can only be fixed now by fucking up their hot shit and replacing it with stuff that hopefully with the balance changes will work out for them.

I personally don’t see Sagat and Ryu “going down”. Like not in the sense that they are going down to SFIV Guile status. I think people are just afraid of Ryu and Sagat being changed on a gameplay level at all when in reality they really are mostly the same fundamentally. Still gonna be way better than the crap characters that were in Vanilla.

Nerfing Akuma without making him bad is actually really easy and there are a bunch of ways to do it.

E.g.,- Make it so that demon flip throw does a techable knockdown instead of an untechable one.

That change alone would make it quite a bit harder for Akuma to get a stun from vortex, without making him bad.

The only reason I want Akuma nerfed as well is solely because he rapes Sagat lol.

A very selfish, self-serving reason.

I can see why he wasn’t nerfed though…

I think alot of you are highly-underestimatng Angry Scar.

Well I was talking in the sense if Akuma got nerfed in the same way Ryu and Sagat did. Like Akuma being nerfed by the same degree that Ryu and Sagat were. The whole point of Akuma is basically to be an overpowered character with shit health. Which if done right usually ends up with him being balanced enough to not run the game solely.

Definitely agree.

Again, all theory here (maybe Alioune can test this out), but using AS EX TU might be good if you can still link U1 after it.

Currently, the combo is: <insert hit-confirm string here>, TU xx FADC > f+hk > Ultra
It might be possible to do: <insert hit-confirm string here>, AS, EX TU > Ultra

Both start from a hit-confirm, both use 2 bars, and both will do about the same damage before the Ultra, but the second combo is going to suffer from less damage scaling on that Ultra

correct me if i’m wrong, but wouldn’t ex tu cause the damage scaling to be worse than just using f+hk?

No, because even though EX-TU has mulitple hits, all hits count as one move (EX-TU).

Besides, unless its confirmed that AS EX-TU leaves more room to combo Ultra afterwards, no one is going to even attempt it in high-level play. The link is just too strict.

This is actually a good theory. Cr lk Cr mp AS cr.lp Ex TU Ultra 1. new bnb?

sorry i’m confused…
so damage scaling is only effected by the number of moves in a combo?
if thats the case what would be the difference between using an AS buffed ex-TU and a f.rh damage scale wise?

Damage scaling goes by the number of attacks, or inputs to be more precise,. It’s why if you do 3 Rekkas with Fei Long, the 3rd one will always be scaled to 80%, because it’s a 3rd input. This is also the reason Gen’s Waterfall Kicks deal almost no damage, every kick is another input, and another point to the damage scaling.

^angry scar is tight…I might pick up sagat because of this…can you imagine the style combos with this move?

f+HKx2->angscar->dP->fadc->f+HK->ultra…tight…3 f+hk juggles…hell yeah…

already I heard you can cHP->angscar->cMK->dP…damn…also tight…like a slow-mo boss hitconfirm…

I’m hype for angry scar…that shit just looks tight

Akuma lost his infinite and that is the biggest nerf possible in the Sagat match up… So i don’t know why you would complain. Also, Akuma got a lot of damage nerf.

Basically Sagat has to spend meter to do ridiculous damage on TU, especially EX-TU. This, however, is not a big problem for Sagat, since he builds meter like a champ with his TS spacing game.

Just imagine it. TS spacing. TS xx AS > continues TS game. Now has stored charge for huge TU damage. If anything, this is a huge improvement for Sagat. His combos will be longer and deal more damage. Given the combo potential of AS, I’m surprised more Sagats aren’t flocking to their old main and embracing this as a huge buff.

Like said it will take more skill to win with Sagat, but he is by no means “weaker” than he previously was. He still has the potential to dish out huge damage, and I challenge anyone to prove me wrong.

Even the designers said he’ll still be #1 or 2. Just watch and see. AS will open up new options, and destroy people who are sleeping on its possibilities.

Real talk AS is good, but it’s not this OMGWTF GODLIKE MOVE that Keno made it out to be. Sagat has to burn HELLA meter to get the most use out of it. That said Sagat players better master EX TU into Ultra if they wanna compete.

AS buff then hit confirm low short low strong xx EX TU link to Ultra = serious business

I am by no means a Sagat main, but I play agianst one regularly. To me, Sagat has use of only 2 EX attacks. EX-TS and EX-Knee (mostly for throw afterwards). He can afford to spend meter. He really only needs it for FADC and EX-TS. If you ask me, he’s one of the least dependant on EX in the game, second only to Dhalsim. He’ll benefit from AS like a champ.