Vortex still works so GGS Sagat. Also it’s pretty easy for Akuma to teleport under Sagat’s nose, and the high damage from before like blocking tigershots is toned down, will be a pretty hard match up, since Sagat wallks like a tank and hits like a Cammy.
not bad as far as the range on the st.lk cancel
makes me even happier
ssf4 is going to be savage
althought his ultra 2 seems bleh to me and dunno why anyone would pick that over U1
Eh…I don’t know vortex works on everybody so really Akuma should just be top tier for fucking free now right? Yeah I’m not convinced. Vortex + loop IMO is what made things difficult for Sagat. I mean yeah now that he only has 1,000 health regular combos will add up harder on him.
What I’m wondering though is if they toned down the damage on Sagat’s normals. I mean I’m not worried about uppercut because all you have to do is spend one EX meter that you weren’t even going to use any ways to bring it back to good damage. If his normal damage got toned down then that’ll hurt him more than uppercut. Uppercut doing less damage doesn’t mean anything IMO because Sagat was always sitting on 3 plus meters in most matchups any ways.
If there’s any character that needs to block tiger shots it’s definitely not Akuma any ways. It does almost no good to put Akuma in block stun because he can just teleport or reverse shoryu with the smallest crack in your block string and Sagat’s block strings aren’t particularly awesome. Just like in the last game you pretty much just want to get him to make a mistake where you can land a full hit and maximize damage. Akuma will definitley be a matchup where you are always making sure to have angry scar stored.
So far I think Ultra 2 will be useful because the start up will be quicker than Ultra 1. Once you have Ultra 2 stocked it’s said that Blanka can no longer throw Blanka balls at you ever because if you block it’s free Ultra punish. So when he could get away with it from time to time if you weren’t looking for it with Ultra 1 it’ll now be free 30 percent damage punish for getting it blocked now. If it works like I think it will it’ll probably mean Sagat will now have a punish for blocking max ranged headbutts from Rog and won’t have to kara uppercut anymore to punish Honda headbutt.
Yeah I double posted. LOL.
Nowhere did I say Akuma will be top-tier, only he’ll be harder for Sagat. Even if Vortex trades Akuma can laugh, no fwd+rh into ultra guaranteed, and minimal damage (compared to a good 170 before). And cr.mp>low ts and cr.mk>low ts is a good blockstring to make Akuma block a TS. But hmm Angry Scar, it certainly does change things up. Don’t forget since jab>roundhouse won’t work anymore, people will most likely go for roundhouse>cr.mp on Sagat for that extra damage thanks to his big hitbox. You’ll still eat damage from Akuma, just not to the extent as before (stun-wise too).
Me talking about Akuma being top tier wasn’t really to argue my point it was just the fact that if Sagat is free to anybody then IMO Akuma is looking to be pretty top tier at this point. That’s just IMO. I was just confusing the conversation I guess.
Well to be specific if Vortex trades Sagat still gets f+HK free. F+HK never misses no matter how poor your timing is. f+HK isn’t a slow moving Ultra like Ryu’s and it covers half the screen so you get hit by it no matter what every trade. It’s just now that Sagat gets reset he can’t Ultra unless the opponent does a jump in from too high in the air which Sagat would have just blocked and uppercutted any ways. Yeah I think Akuma losing loops kills that dominating factor he would have had in the matchup. If Sagat had vortex + loop then yeah I’d agree…the matchup would be a convincing 6-4 for Akuma and borderline 7-3.
I mean me playing as Sagat in Super SFIV…I’m powering up angry scar all the fucking time. Once I hit an uppercut I’m just gonna power up another. Sagat doesn’t need meter in a lot of matchups like that so spending one EX meter (that you otherwise wouldn’t use for shit in the original game) to make your uppercut do good damage again is worth it. After watching that video vs. Dudley I’m convinced that s.LK is still very useful. What people are forgetting is that the range on the first knee of s.LK is very large for a move that’s not even fully extended. It’s still longer ranged than some characters crouching normals.
I agree, I was surprised at s.LK first hit range, it was much better than in turbo. So instinctively we’d still do the st.lk>low ts and just hope we’re in first hit range lol. Also isn’t it essential now with Sagat to have an FADC stocked? So I wonder how angry scar would factor into that.
I personally don’t think it’s that important to have FADC stocked. Not to the point where you have to be worrying about it. Akuma is probably one of the few matchups where you even use EX tiger shot more than once a round. It wasn’t that important when I used Viper cuz she had shit health and her footsies arguably weren’t much better than Sagat’s. Plus her wake up options are even more terrible than Sagat’s. Akuma didn’t even need vortex to pin her down and vortex just made things worse. I think at high level play blocking owns “lemme make sure I have a bail out when I already have a 5 frame uppercut that’s invincible”. I mean FADC ultimately does make his BnB’s stronger but now that Ultras do even less damage than they did before I think people are going to be using “Boxer Ultra” strategy more often. That means holding onto your super and ultra meter so that you can use your ultra at a point in battle where you can maximize the damage. Rog players don’t let their meter out on the first headbutt they hit you with while they have an ultra. The damage they get for the ultra just isn’t worth it.
I think if you play smart with Sagat he has the tools to keep from needing to have to blow all of his meter just to do do damage. Just power up an angry scar and do it when you’re near 3 EX bars so you’ll always have FADC available. Just incase. As a Sagat player I’m not going to unload my ultra the first time I get a chance. I’d rather save it up so my ultra does more damage later. Even saving FADC for defensive purposes…most of the offense in SFIV isn’t even strong enough to warrant NEEDING to use FADC on an uppercut to get out of every situation. I wish I had FADC uppercut in 3rd Strike I’ll say that much. Even parry wasn’t as much of a life safer as that bullshit. Sagat still has a 5 frame invincible uppercut that if you just use with proper timing and ingenuity will still get you out of bad situations without needing to waste meter. You just have to read people like the old days instead of wasting meter so that your uppercut is completely safe to anything but a guess backdash or walk back to make it whiff.
What’s damage on Tiger Knee now? I tried searching but thread search really sucks
I think it’s only fair that Sagat gets demon flip now that his damage is reduced.
I don’t know but did it really do that much damage before? I mean I don’t even think damage was really an important factor when using Tiger Knee. I mean this is the same move that pushes the opponent to the FULL END of the other screen and armor breaks. Tiger knee was a big reason Sagat fucked Gief and Honda hard. They do all of that work to get in and one tiger knee sends them back to square one. I think there’d be more to complain about if they changed tiger knee so your opponent stayed close to you on wake up. It would make tiger knee mostly useless against Gief IMO and give him one less tool to use in that matchup. Tiger Knee shooting people back to the moon is great for Sagat’s tool set now that he will probably be more dependent on his zoning game.
I was more concerned about its use in combos than gameplay implications. TK on average did around 10-20 lower than the equivalent TU. If TK new damage didn’t take as big of a nerf as TU, then c.lk -> c.lk -> TK might be the new c.lk -> c.lk -> TU
Might depend on the character he’s fighting with - against Ryu/Honda/Gief or anyone he wants to get the fuck away from, it’s better.
Against someone like Claw/Fuerte/Dhalsim or anyone with no invincible reversal on wake-up - TU might still be better to continue pressure.
Heh yeah I didn’t even use tiger knee in combos. My Sagat isn’t that advanced yet. LOL. Though now that I think about it c.LKx2 tiger knee sounds like a nice alternative. Though all it takes is an angry scar to make uppercut good again so I’m powering up when I can.
Has anyone seen damage on AS EX-TU?
This means saving up for Level 2 Ultra, and focus absorbing fireballs or attacks much as you can in general to build up meter. Makes a lot of sense, he’ll still be viable, but now we have to work hard.
no idea if this was known yet, but what is the damage on his super now? He is still going to build meter just as fast as before and with weaker ultras and a weaker uppercut without scar it might be more useful to hit confirm a c.lk into super if you have it. And you probably (guess…) can land his ultra 2 afterwards for a little extra damage as well if you feel like it.
And does anyone know if his chip damage on uppercut/knee/fb were nerfed as well? People tend ot overlook chip damage but it can really be an integral part of why a character with good keep-out like sagat can dominate a round when you end up netting 100-200 damage worth of chip a round.
Of course his chip is lower if his damage is lower. Chip is 25% of max damage. This means that since TK got nerfed his TK frame traps are now even less threatening cuz of less chip.
so tk damage DID get nerfed? Is this confirmed or speculated? And if so by how much?
I don’t see Sagats using tiger knee frame traps much anymore. Learning how to c.MK under tiger knees has reduced Sagat to semi ST status already in matchups against Ryu and Chun and anyone with a good c.MK basically. Mago vs. Daigo is basically knee frame trap free these days.