Yes I’ve heard about Ken already. Guess what? I don’t give a damn cuz counter hit shoryu into Ultra is definitely more difficult to setup than trade into Ultra. I have to actually press a button while Ken is in the air and he must counter hit that button I pressed in order to get the Ultra. If for some stupid reason I decide to actually jump in the air against Ken I’m just not going to press a button. If he shoryus me and then goes for FADC all he’s going to get is the half ultra like he always has. Counter hit Ultra FADC into full Ultra is only really gonna be good for ground based footsies. You have to force a counter hit situation out of me during footsies to get that to work. Not just any reversal hit or punishing a move on whiff. You basically have to play footsies to get that set up to work and it’s not something scrubs are going to be getting away with all over the place online. If you don’t hit the very start up of a move I’m trying to attack you with you won’t get full damage. I don’t care how invincible the DP is. If that shit doesn’t work on regular hit it’s not ridiculously good and will require a smart player to really utilize.
That rumor about raw HP shoryu FADC Ultra 1 is not true. It’s been confirmed that Ken can’t get the full Ultra without counter hit. It’s just since Ken has a more invincible HP DP if people are pressing buttons in the air Ken will be able to go into Ultra if he can catch them at the exact point that they start up their air move. Anything other than a pin point counter hit and he gets ass damage like usual. People will purposely not press buttons or time their jump ins early so just incase they get shoryud the full ultra will not connect. It’s going to be like fighting against SFIV Ryu where you didn’t jump in at him because you knew he would shoryu you for free but now you know as long as you don’t press a button or press a button early in the air if he tries to ultra you won’t take much damage.
It’s nice that Dudley can combo off LP jet upper into partial ultra but the damage off of it isn’t going to be anything like Sagat’s was in the old game. Plus Dudley’s jet upper probably won’t be that strong of an uppercut outside of EX so he’ll probably have to buffer it off of jabs like Balrog. I doubt Dudley’s footsies are going to be as strong as Balrog’s either. Dan being able to do DP FADC Ultra is not that big of a deal for me either. Everyone’s ultra is getting toned down in damage any ways and if anything it’ll give him something to be more competitive with. Dan will probably still have below average footsies and generally have problems doing big damage without an Ultra.
So who so far is doing more damage in Super SFIV than what Sagat was doing? So far I haven’t seen anyone in a vid YET that has done more damage in a combo than what Sagat has minus Makoto filling up a full super bar and activating Tanden Renki. SFIV wasn’t that high damage of a game any ways outside of Ryu, Sagat, C.Viper and a few other characters and those characters are getting their combo damage toned down too. So what if one of Guile’s main problems was low damage? One of Guile’s other main problems was a shitty flash kick, being completely free on wake up, a normal based game that was overall nerfed compared to his older games, and had a fireball game that was weaker than most of the other cast that threw fireballs. Sagat still has beast priority and trading factor on his uppercut, will not be completely free on wake up unless he’s fighting Akuma or Claw with perfect wake up setups, normals that aren’t quite as good as SFIV Guile’s but definitely did more damage (and probably still will) and a fireball game that will be basically better and will probably only be evened out by Guile’s sonic hurricane.
guile had this problem but vega did not. vega’s damage output is pretty surprising actually. it’s his garbage wake up and close-in game that made him low-tier in vanilla.
Sagats health nerf would have been fine if they just toned it down to Blankas 1050 i believe? Overall damage is pretty much fair for his DP if Angry Scar is any good. At most his regular DP’s can only go up to 110-130 before it gets out of hand considering Sagats DP’s are still 1 Hit and can link to Ultra.
To further emphasize on Ken, no one is going to be afraid of him mashing on hp srk cuz theres a huge risk of him flying up on the air if he misses. Which we will punish with a full combo on his way down. This isn’t even as bad as rog mashing on jab since theres a huge risk unless he fadcs. Nothing like ryu lp shoryu into ultra for 400 plus damage. Without counter hit people will have no problem eating an srk from him once in a while.
Recently, I have been using Guile and I definitely feel your pain and frustration already, so props on sticking with your character, but Guile is one of those characters whose tools do not even function properly (i.e., Flash Kick gets stuffed by too many jumping attacks). His defensive and offensive options are very limited. His damage output is one of the worst in the entire game. Even if Sagat did not exist in Street Fighter IV, Guile would still remain where he remains to this day on the tier list.
Besides, I honestly have no idea what the developers were thinking. You have Sagat who hits like a tank. You have Ryu who has the best footsies in the game and at least three viable ways to combo in his ultra combo. You have Akuma who has the best wake up mix up metagame. You have Rufus and the dive kicks and numerous other options. You have Boxer and his cr.LP and his top tier footsie game. And then you have characters like Guile and Claw who simply have no options to do any kind of damage whatsoever. To make matters worse, they lack defensive options, especially when it comes to cross ups. It almost gives you the idea that Capcom wants certain characters to be bad. Once questioned about it, they talk about character differences, variety, flavor, etc. Sure.
At least SSFIV may get balance patches, according to reports. I always have my doubts when it comes to fighting games with no arcade releases. Just look at Soul Calibur IV.
Sagat nerf rage? I already said he could use some tweaking and I am happy with his nerfs except for the st.lk cancels. So in the end, no real frustration here. I am not a pro player, neither am i a hardcore competitive one, so to me it really doesn’t matter if i win or lose as long as I have people to play with and I have fun.
21 sagats are domination of the scene? like i said, what exactly are they dominating? I’m sure TONS of Sagats entered SBO or tried out for SBO qualifiers and only Mago made it to top 4 in the end. I believe he was the only Sagat in Top 8. So what exactly is it that they’re dominating in terms of high level competitive play? I don’t see any of them aside from Mago, RF, and Ojiisan doing well in tournaments.
Which just proves how broken he is!!! I mean if he wasn’t broken, then so many people wouldn’t be using him right? jkjk, i just want standing lk back… and I’d be completely fine with the rest of the nerfs.
Oh well, sagat playing like he got hit in the head with a wrench might cut down on the hate mail. I will miss my 1 combo for 80% life FTW against Seth players though.
Just wondering why people think Guile is so free in Sf4? no1 here played shinji or infexious? IMO Sagat v Guile in vanilla sf4 is 6/4. and It could possibly be 5/5 in Ssf4.
HOLD THE PHONE: [media=youtube]bTrgoojWZng&feature=channel[/media]
In this vid Sagat cancels st.LK TWICE into low TS… at 4:28 and 4:39. This is the retail build as well. The first hit is cancellable so while you don’t get max range like you used to, we have SOMETHING.
EDIT: at 4:59 we see the benefit of AS… GDLK damage on next uppercut.
Yeah I think Guile being free to Sagat is an old mentality that top players have shown to not be true. Guile still has better footsies than Sagat does so that helps him enough in the fight to keep it from being a complete loss for him. The problem is this matchup is normally even or even in Guile’s favor in other SF games and the fact that Guile has no option to go over Sagat’s low tiger shot other than jumping means that Sagat’s projectile game is more effective against Guile than it’s normally supposed to be.
Yes… but it’s nice to finally see it in action as opposed to constant theory crunching.
About Guile I think it is a 6-4 matchup… however as anyone who’s played a good Guile will know, get in the corner and shit gets bad real quick. Keeping him at fullscreen length is the only way to play this matchup.
Well like every other character other than maybe Balrog, Akuma and Ryu had a free ass matchup in IV so Sagat might as well know what that’s like too. Viper has at least 2 characters in SFIV (Zangief/Honda) that make her their bitch and that probably won’t change much in Super. Yet she’s still a very competitive character. Though I heard the loop with Akuma doesn’t work anymore so that might save him a bit of trouble in that match now.