Well being the best character in Super means you have to be better over a potential 35 other characters. If they balance the game well enough we just don’t really know what’s going to happen. People are quick to call Dudley for tops but u just don’t know till its out. Sagat won’t be a bad character and IMO that’s all that really matters. He won’t be SFIV Guile.
Yeah they definitely did pull I guess you could call a quick fix on the DP problem but I really don’t know how else they could have done it with the small time frame they had to fix the game. They already made SFIV the way it was to begin and it sold really well so I understand if they aren’t going to rearrange something that they didn’t feel was broken. Fighting games are different now so hey. They weren’t going to fix the game around making block strings less reversable or give ground based moves more active frames.
You say that they didn’t nerf DP’s for everybody. Why would they need to? Ryu’s and Sagat’s were the only ones that led to big damage any ways. Who else is still getting big damage off of random reversals other than like Rufus (who needs to spend 3 bars just to do it)? Nobody I can remember. Viper’s EX seismo to Ultra only works at certain ranges and you can easily jump over it, focus dash through it or even hit her out of it. Like I said before it was plain obvious that they weren’t going to fix the reversal system so I gave up on them trying to fix that a long time ago. We learned months ago the game fundamentally was going to be the same so whatever I had originally hoped for to make the game play like older SF games I just threw out the window. Now I just want the game to be the best version of SFIV possible and so far they seem to be going in the right direction IMO.
Overall unless Sagat is getting reduced to SFIV Guile status…I’m not going to complain. He’ll still have tools to deal with basically 90 percent of the situations the game presents and that’s something most of the other SFIV cast couldn’t say they were capable of. Sagat has tools and that’s all he needs. Spending one EX meter to get your BnBs to do big damage again. Not like Sagat used meter much any ways. s.LK not being cancellable anymore will hurt him in some matches but it still retains its priority and speed even if you can’t combo off of it for knockdowns anymore outside of close range (where you would just use c.LP instead). Sagat with nerfed s.LK and uppers is still a very good character IMO.
All the Sagat players crying about the nerfs are NUTS. Fundamentally, Sagat is still super solid. From all the comments I’m reading, you guys make it seem like he’s going to get beat 7-3 by Rose now.
Bottom line is, he’s still a competitive character.
P.S. Play Guile for over a year in tournaments filled with Sagat players and then talk to me (I was just in a tournament yesterday where I fought 5 Sagats in my bracket. WTF).
I think pretty much everyone’s in agreement. Sagat still has his zoning tools, he’ll just have to work a bit harder to get his opponent back out once they get in, and he’ll have to do it a few more times, but he still works. yay for conflict resolution
You still dont get the point. More BP doesnt means you are better, BUT when half of a top 50 is dominated by a character that certainly means that it is way easier for that character to GRIND. It is COMPLETELY STUPID to say that only sagat players grind. Japan arcade scene is very diverse in the characters played, and many of them love to grind. BUT you have a maximum of 3 or 4 of the same character in the top 50 (it is like 4 rufus, 3 ryu, 3 balrog etc) and 21 sagat… If it was 7 or 10, I would have said ok. But half of the top 50? Come on, that certainly means that it is way easier for them to get BP. And that is because sagat has exceptional tools: amazing zoning abilities, kara TU, great damage, one of the best ultra in the game, and good stamina on top of that.
You said that sagat is not represented in tournament? Maybe that the case in US, but here in europe some of the best are sagat players. We had recently a tournament in france where 3 of the top 5 were sagat. I dont live in Japan but last national tournament finalist was RF a sagat. Mago won godsgarden 1. In godsgarden 2, at least 3 sagat (bonchan, mago, Hanamaruki) were present in the last phases. If all that is not enough for you, it is for me. And it must be the same for capcom since he will be nerfed.
That’s my last post in this thread on this debate!
Atleast, give sagat more hp than dudley. Thats the least capcom can do for sagat. It makes no since for a big and tall muscular man to have less hp than a smaller character like dudley.
Another point, since st.lk can’t cancel now, guys go watch yaya play N.Sagat in ST, he can beat all the other characters, he relies on max range cr.rh and st.lk as footsies. Dude also has Daigo beat in terms of fireball war and N.Sagat has a lot of recovery there. Good to watch if you plan on maining Sagat in Super and need an alternative for st.lk that can’t be cancelled.
Not once did I say Sagats are the only people that grind…ever, I just said there are a lot of Sagat players. Makes sense as he is a top tier and very strong. Regardless, only a handful of those sagats are competitve amongst Japan’s top tier players…so why does that even matter? Your problem is a character is easier to grind BP with? even though none of those guys have taken first place in any major tournament except for Mago in Gods Garden 1? ok then…
Not once did I dispute Sagat being top tier in ANY of my posts. My main point is still going over the heads of you people that are blinded by rage/QQ.
Did I ever say Sagat is not represented well in tournaments either? No, I am saying it is not a complete domination by him. And it isn’t. A top tier is always going to be well represented.
Sir, no offense. But you kinda look like your proposition is either blinded by some SAGAT NERF RAGE or just trying to getting things out on anyone due to severe frustration.
Let’s make this clear
Sagat’s TU dmg cut = Not Really a nerf, yes it is a nerf in numbers, but everyone got their DP nerfed in order to make the game more aggressive. Sagat still can connect Forward + HK > Ultra and he is like the only one who still can connect Ultra after DP trade
Sagat’s Ultra dmg cut = Rumor is that everyone got their Ultra nerfed. If so, then it is not a nerf
Sagat’s Tknee dmg cut = It is a Nerf definitely. Tknee is a Low Risk/High Reward Special which also broke Super armor (Focus Attack) Tiger Knee was safe on block if it was executed at right distance plus it couldn’t be FA’d, but it was easily countered by cr.mk. which lowered the hit box.(but cr.mk counter is character specific) Low Rick/High Reward Special should not have high damage AND armor break…
Sagat’s s.lk cancellation screwed over = It is a Nerf and probably the most painful one. I cannot find any justification on this.
Forward + HK dmg cut = Everyone knows this had to be nerfed
Angry Scar = an extra tool, it isn’t meant to make up for TU dmg cut. If you don’t get it, look at #1.
Sagat’s HP cut = if Sagat got down to 1000, poor Sagat. if his HP got down to 1050, yes finally…
If I missed anything please let me know.
Other than #4 and #7, I don’t think anybody shouldn’t be surprised about the changes on Sagat.
P.S. 21 out of 50 IS DOMINATION…(they have 17 characters) And guess what? Japanese players are SOOOOO much better than American pros, and their arcade establishment level is SOOOO much higher than American arcade. So the 21/50 data has much more credibility than JUST you, pjj5001, saying that it is due to “there are a lot of Sagat players.”
Yeah, I get that. I’m just wondering why not. Give lights and normals a frame or two more blockstun, reduce reversal frame windows by a frame or two. Problem solved, and without anything drastic, like a guard meter.
Nobody in regular SFIV. Did you know that SFIV Ken can FADC full Ultra off an Anti-Air or Counter Hit HP SRK? Did you hear that it’s been made fully invincible in Super (meaning that it’s likely now a reliable AA and a good random reversal move)? There’s also a rumor that he can land full Ultra I off a plain HP SRK FADC. Unconfirmed, AFAIK. Did you know that Dudley can link partial Corkscrew Cross Ultra off Jet Upper FADC, or even just LP Jet Upper? Also, now Dan can DP > FADC > Ultra II.
Like I said, same shit, different characters. Which is why it has me scratching my head, and why even though Super may very well be more balanced than SFIV (we can only hope), they didn’t get rid of the problem.
He also has nerfed health and overall damage, which was more my concern specifically for him. 100 damage uppers is dumb IMO (and horrible for Cammy), but Sagat wasn’t getting good damage on anything based on the videos, and that looks really bad for him. One of SFIV Guile’s main problems was damage output, you know. As was Vega’s. Just saying.