**You know what…I’m going to laugh when SSIV comes out and Sagat is even more beastly **
If that happens, maybe the next day Ono will announce that there’s no PC version and i won’t care.
He isn’t that serious guys.
Well, i can find his weaknesses atleast, and he’s going to be changed atleast
My post from another thread.
thank you. im a little tired of the complaints. either learn your matchups or stfu.
Sagat should keep his karas though. At high level play he does need them and they are hard to master. You gotta put in the work and they aren’t auto win either.
Maybe if he keeps those he should have abit more recovery added onto low tiger shot. High tiger shot doesn’t need to be changed as it can already be ducked under by anyone in the game. Anybody trying to jump over high tiger shot should hit themselves, i have.
Maybe a couple extra frames of recovery on TK. I don’t think anyone should be able to just toss out moves without a care in the world that they could be countered, that just seems abit wrong to me. His high fierce kick shouldn’t hit 2 times low…that’s abit ridiculous to have that happen when you tried to sweep him and clearly it should have been successful
Once you get your footsie game up you can hit him out of alot of that stuff.
Shotos can sweep or low forward out of all his specials aside from TU’s of course, but what legit Sagat throws out random TU’s?
Why should Sagat have more recovery on his low shot? Right now his low shot is equal to Ryu’s hadouken in recovery. It’s fine. High shot is fine. Zoning is Sagat’s game. Let him keep the best zoning overall.
Otherwise you get Alpha 2 where fuckin Ken has a better zoning game then Sagat which is a fucking abomination.
Besides his EX shots aren’t that amazing when you look at the data. To compensate for Sagat’s great zoning they do not start-up faster or recover faster. They travel faster, deal more damage and are good in combos though. I think this was a good decision by Capcom to not make his EX versions have different data. If you wanna get rid of juggle properties on regular shots then that’s w/e but EX shots should keep it.
Once you get your footsie game up you can hit him out of alot of that stuff.
I know that most of the time a flashkick can KO a careless tiger knee, but i have to be VERY careful when i use a flashkick. It’s just hard for me to see how i have to be so careful with my moves and other characters can toss them out like “lol i dare you to try and punish me!”
Frankly i think ryus hado should be moved to where akumas fireball is, and then sagat would still have the best zoning game but now ryu actually has a weakness, because right now he has none. Ken’s hado should also be moved to the same recovery as akuma, but worst startup
I think the EX shots are fine really, i’m just saying that if you have kara TK/TU as well as leaving recovery where it is, what are most people supposed to do?
Akuma’s Hadouken only has 30 frames of recovery. >_>
According to the frame data i’m reading it has 14 startup 44 recovery,while ryu has 13 and 45…
Hmm, akumas fireball seems so much less safe than akumas need to look into this. Where’s that fireball guide when you need it
Lawl
To get recovery just do total frames minus start-up.
So for Ryu it’s 45 - 13 = 32
Akuma is 44 - 14 = 30
Akuma has slower execution but recovers faster. Ryu has faster execution but recovers slower.
For reference here is Sagat’s data.
High shot is 39 - 11 = 28
Low shot is 44 - 12 = 32
So generally Sagat throws his projectiles fast and his high shot is very impressive in terms of data.
Ok, found the thread. It’s really crazy that akuma fireballs seem sooo much more punishable than ryus when it has a disadvantage to startup by one frame. Your formula leads me to believe that akumas fireball is actually better than ryus but that’s not my experience at all.
Depends on what you want. Those few frames mean quite a bit. Ryu is a bit better at using his hadouken for pressure and poking while Akuma is better for straight zoning and trapping.
I guess i need to play different akumas? In my experience ryu has a far better zoning game, but i guess if you’re playing sagat you don’t have much mobility. That’s a testament to how much one frame can really mean, Even professional akumas i’ve seen don’t see to try and zone like ryu when according to that frame data they ought to be better at it.
Aaaaaanyways, to get more back ontopic, i don’t think sagat needs many changes and i’m optimistic that he will still be a top tier character once the lower tier characters get their buffs
Well Akuma has so many options I don’t think that most would want to lock themselves into one method of play. I know I wouldn’t.
On topic: I think Sagat is gonna suck ass in this upgrade. *shrug
Yeah Capcom is gonna kick Sagat’s ass. It’s practically in the crystal ball.
tricked in the sense that i went to training mode and had to try damned hard to not get a safe tiger knee. stand block like you said didnt make a whole lot of difference.
for characters without fireballs or built in non ex anti fireball moves, tiger knee is a lil beastly. maybe im overstating things a bit, i dunno, but that shit could use a slight nerf. not saying he needs to be ass, but a small change to his tk to make it a little more punishable would help out non fireballers a lot without hurting his ability to fight the characters with the built in tools to keep up with his strong zoning game
Just make it his old Tiger Knee.
I would be totally fine with that. Much easier to approach with and avoid projectiles plus the recovery was godly so it set up for alot of mindgames.
Suits my rushdown playstyle really well.
Is that a challenge? <---- PSN ID is over there. Holla at me
His tiger knee recovery needs to be nerfed to hell. Its easily one of the best rush downs in the game, way too good for what should be a zoning character. They should never give him frame advantage. Like I said before it is better than Bison’s scissor rushdown and that makes no sense. Why do Tiger knees stuff normals so easily where as scissors and PC gets stuffed?
Lk version should be -1 on block at least. If it leaves the characters at even frames than Sagat’s c.lp should have 4 frame startup.
MK version should be -5/6 no matter how deep they hit.
HK version should be about -9/10
j mp hitbox needs to be nerfed and active for less time. I almost think this move was left this way on accident.
Sorry but Sagat has all the best zoning options. If tiger knees stay as they are than they should hit all of his zoning options (Tiger shot, tiger uppercut, F+s.hk ect) with the nerf bat.
Actually his regular s .hk should should be a bit slower and only hit once.
His tiger knee recovery needs to be nerfed to hell. Its easily one of the best rush downs in the game, way too good for what should be a zoning character. They should never give him frame advantage. Like I said before it is better than Bison’s scissor rushdown and that makes no sense. Why do Tiger knees stuff normals so easily where as scissors and PC gets stuffed?
Why does it need less recovery. Sagat cannot win of tiger shots in this game. Fireballs dont do the same damage they did back in ST. His pokes suck and his movement sucks as well. The only damage he can land is if you fuck up or through tiger knee block strings.
And do you know how hit boxes work in this game? I swear most people dont know how they work. PC and scissors gets stuffed because how the animation works. Scissors does not hit until Bison’s heel is smashing your face in, and PC gets stuffed on start up because he grins backs off (making some pokes whiff) then decides to fly towards you. As opposed to Tiger knee where Sagat kneels )shifting his hit box) then thrusts foward from the bottom up stuffing pokes and other things like that. Priority no longer exists. The game now goes to the player that knows how to control space using his moves. People who now how to use tiger knee know how to control space. In short they are better than you.
Lk version should be -1 on block at least. If it leaves the characters at even frames than Sagat’s c.lp should have 4 frame startup.
why? have you seen the range on that move. If thats the case i want Ryu’s cr.lp to be 4 frames, and cr.mk to be 7 frames instead of 5.
** MK version should be -5/6 no matter how deep they hit.**
Why if your opponent spaced himself right then he shouldnt get punished for doing it. If it -5/6 frames i want Balrog to have -5/6 frames on all of his rush punches and bison’s scissors kick to be at least -2 frames.
**
HK version should be about -9/10**
j mp hitbox needs to be nerfed and active for less time. I almost think this move was left this way on accident.
learn to AA this move. you dont have to jump foward to AA some one. Have you tried neutral jump that seems to work wonders.
**
Sorry but Sagat has all the best zoning options. If tiger knees stay as they are than they should hit all of his zoning options (Tiger shot, tiger uppercut, F+s.hk ect) with the nerf bat.**
Why you dont give reason as to why he should get nerfed. Saying he can tiger shot all day is not an excuse. You cant tiger shot some one to death. If you cant deal with it then get better or play something else. If Vega can get out of tiger knee block strings then any one can stop them.