Sagat Improvement Thread

Usually bigger guys take more hits to KO. Abel, Rufus, Boxer, Honda, Gief, Blanka, Sagat. Smaller people take less hitsto KO. Girls, Dhal, Fuerte, Gen.

Apparantly Capcom agrees that looks count for something as far as Stamina is concerned. Thats why so many people think Sagat’s health nerf was wrong. It wasn’t his high stamina that people disliked the most. It was his ridiculous damage and trade benefits.

This is a false conclusion. I can point out all sorts of reasons why this is wrong.

Just ONE example is why in the hell Sakura, the smallest character in SF, has more health than Chun, Akuma, Seth, Sim, ELF, Gen etc…

With the exception of his Uppercut doing 100(?) dmg, I feel his nerfs were fairly reasonable.

Realistically, his game plan is still intact; he’s still going to have incredible zoning tools and comeback potential. Players will simply have to work around with the fact that he has a little less room for error.

So is applying lower health to all the females in a video game because they have virtual vaginas, but tell that to Capcom.

Please tell me why every female character’s health is below average. Do you really think any of the female cast woud be broken with 1000 stamina?

Also…

Gen is old and physically weak
Sim is a starving frail man
Akuma’s Satsui No Hado trades defense for power

Only Chun and Seth are the exceptions.

Little less room for error? No.

Comeback potential? Not so much.

Have you seen how much his damage is nerfed? His damage on damn near everything is nerfed. TU being 100 damage is just the tip of the iceberg. Look at his Tiger Knee. His normals. His Ultra. etc. Less damage output makes for less comeback potential, and compared to SFIV Sagat, Super Sagat hits like a kitten instead of a tiger.

On top of which, he has average health now? His options may still make him a decent character, but I doubt he’ll be top anymore, and considering how well balanced he was for a god tier in the first place, nerfing him that much was a bit unreasonable.

Females are weaker than men, which is why they can’t take as many hits. Not sure why that doesn’t make sense to anyone. Plus I would hate for Chun-Li to have normal health. She already has good turtle tools, good rushdown, and evasive manuevers and a footsies game that’s unmatched. It seems perfectly fine that she’d have lower than average health considering all of her tools.

His footsie game and rushdown game and to a lesser extent his keep away game is nerfed though, just from losing s.lk cancellable.

I reckon that alone would have sufficed bringing him back to his original zoning type game which he still has. The HP nerf was a little much, the damage of TU doesn’t bother me, as long as it still works as a good AA which it looks like it does and isn’t stuffed up like ryu’s AA, lol seriously ryu’s DP is looking to be worse than guiles current somersault kick, that shit gets traded often or gets beaten clean.

Welcome down to where the rest of the cast resides.

It was a flavor choice. Capcom is designing a competetive game based on ‘flavor’. Why does Sak have more health though? Perhaps because she’s Japanese. I know, sounds ridiculous.

…doesn’t it?

But Capcom decided on this early in development. Flavor is important to them. Any designer could tell you they knew they had a choice to simply make everyone 1000 health and then balance the damage around that. There would be hurdles there too, but they would be infinitesimally easier to leap over than what they currently chose instead.

However this is their game, and developers are human. Humans are prone to artistic desire and the want to have fun in their projects. An artist may paint the sky green and the grass blue in a landscape portrait and nobody would ask him why, because it is an artistic interpretation.

Art and Practicality collide however because games are, by design a medium of Logic. I’m not talking about realistic logic like “Mario shouldn’t be able to jump that high because that’s impossible.” more that “Mario can jump over that pipe, because he CAN jump that high.” the gamer has been presented with Logic and that logic cannot be refuted. Anytime the player sees a challenge requiring him to jump, he can apply the designers logic to defeat the challenge.

Capcom is telling us, in their artistic interpretation that regardless of the overall rules of their game and the ultimate purpose of balanced, head to head competition that women are weaker because they are women. That Sagat has more health because he is tall and that Gen with his ancient skills and technique has less survivability than a high school girl in a sailor uniform.

This is ridiculous from a logical viewpoint, but we must respect the artistic license. This in itself is fine, the problem is they want us to meet challenges, with faulty logic that isn’t even across the board.

This is like Mario being able to jump very high…sometimes. Not all the time.

How could you ever, truly meet the challenges laid out ahead? That is my biggest gripe with Street Fighter game design. It fails one of the very key things a video game asks a gamer to do.

To apply personal skill to meet the challenges ahead. A player, depending on his choice in SF may have to be substantially better than another to win, even if that player is a lesser opponent simply because he chose an artistically stronger character. It’s difficult to respect or acknowledge.

…but that’s what we’re demanded to do.

Which is also unreasonable. Guile’s Somersault never should have been that bad in the first place, that Capcom would make more AAs not work as AAs instead of less is retarded.

So much for balancing up.

Indeed. To me, it brings up the question, “Who was Capcom listening to when they were balancing Super Sagat? Couldn’t have been any top Sagats.”

Was worse for guile because it basically meant you had one special move and you relied mainly on your normals to AA. Somersault was only used in combos mainly in SF4 because it was so unreliable as an AA which is where they seem to be going with ryu’s SRK in SSF4.

I know, because I know if I was a top rated Sagat player who has been bringing home the bacon with the guy for more than a year, I would want to be the first to help Capcom bone me.

That said, Capcom has their own QA team in Japan with internal players that can give top players a run for their money (according to Capcom).

irrelavent. it’s a video game which, like movies, call for the suspension of disbelief. thus, there’s no reason why a female character can’t have as much stamina as a higher stamina male character if the decision is simply based on sex ,age or even size. it’s amusing to see players not even blink when a character throws a fireball, but when confronted with the idea of a female character having higher stamina. it blows their mind.

a more reasonable explaination.

Sagat nerfs in SSFIV:

  • All version of TU does 100 damage
  • TK does also mutch less damage
  • Less health(1000, but I watched carefully and I think it its 1050)
  • Standing LK is two hits, only first hit is cancel able, but the first hit have shorter range.
  • All his normals does 10 less damage
  • Weaker Ultra I
  • Weak Ultra II

Not looking good for sagat, they nerfed way to mutch.

But not the correct one. This won’t explain why males with equal or more tools have more health. There is no reasonable explanation because the situation itself is unreasonable.

… I think I love you.

I’m an artist by trade and have, since the very first time I played this game, felt above statement to be true. Kudos to you putting it into words :china:

yeah, but my point was it’s based on a character’s design rather than a poor attempt to inject realism (ie: video game males should be stronger than video game women in a video game because it’s like that in real life.) into a video game.

What make character has as many overall tools and is as versatile as Chun-Li? I mean Ryu is somewhat versatile, and has a skinny hitbox, but he’s way easier to hit than Chun-Li is. And his footsies aren’t nearly as good. Male characters with good evasion (like Fuerte) all take similar or worse damage than Chun Li. I believe anyone who is hard to hit should take a little extra damange when you do hit them. And trust me, it’s not easy to pressure or lockdown a decent Chun player. She’s always been designed this way, which is probably the real reason she takes so much damage. There is no logical reason she should have the same health as Ryu, Guile, or Ken.