I wish the same thing can be said for Guile’s FK.
Maybe my definition of “safe jump” was off from the standard, but my definition is:
Safe jump = Any situation where you can deterministically jump in with an attack on a downed opponent and be safe from their reversal.
I don’t make a distinction between safety via frames or safety via the move comes out on the wrong side…but I see what you are getting at.
As for the guy who as for the other 11…dude, you gotta go search for that stuff. There have been many threads in every character sub forum dedicated solely to safe jump setups. Most come off a forward throw for the following reasons:
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Its an untechable knockdown.
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The spacing is always the same.
You need BOTH precise spacing and a determined wake up time to pull off a safe jump, a forward throw gets you both.
mr top tier getzz technical
a safe jump is throwing out a jumping move such that your opponent’s reversal (eg tiger uppercut) does not go into active frames before you land and therefore you are able to block. your jumping attack should cover their move’s startup frames.
the term usually isn’t meant to cover weird crossup or hitbox shenanigans. it’s like, if a character without a crossup can jump in on character X on wakeup, X is safe-jump-able.
i think most people view ryu as non-safe-jump-able because characters without a crossup like rog have no situations where they can safely jump at him except while he’s actually performing another, non-anti-air move.
although in this game there are all sorts of weird things like invincibility frames on backdash, focus-backdash, delayed quick-getup, dp-fadc etc. that give possible outs from safe-jump setups.
Yes it appears we need a new term for the kind of situation I’m describing.
I think we should call it: Psuedo Safe Jump.
Its a “safe” jump situation that occurs not due to raw frame data, but due to hitbox/spacing shennanigans…but the result is the same: Do it right and they can’t do shit but block your attack or whiff their reversal.
every jump vs ryu can be dp’d, just have to do a different motion and not rely on auto correct as Elord said
^^^ er not necessarily. you can “early” jump against ryu mixing between a perfectly timed 4 frame safe jump that will make contact, but can be srk’d OR you can do a 3 frame “fake jump” that will be blocked if ryu tries to dp it… if one gets the timing down its VERY ambiguous.
if the “real” timing doesnt work versus sagat though, its not safe enough and ryu can probably detect the difference.
yeah, its a dubious tactic… but its there…
OH YEAH another thing:
you do a 4 frmae safe jump that will get get hit if ryu does a reversal dp… however you can jump with the SAME excat timing, and do nothing in the air… if ryu decided to dp it he will get blocked cause there is instant recovery when not throwing out a move.
so there are options, although they are rather hard.
-dime
thats not a safe jump in, thats an empty jump…
…er its still a “jump” is it not?
apples and oranges.
-dime
If Ryu sees you didn’t hit a button he wake-ups and probably grabs you and most likely you tech now ur at neutral.
So that situation doesn’t accomplish all that much.
Or he could backdash and just say fuck your mindgames.
well… if you actually performed a true safe jump you would realize that it hits VERY DEEP, theres no way ANYONE is going to be able to not do something at that height.
and you would also know that backdash isnt an end all be all counter for this because option select sweep hits a backdash while simultaneously being safe to reversals…
but yeah… versus ryu the tactic is still dubious as hell cause its a mixup and thats all it is… if he guesses right he gets dp fadc >ultra if hes highpowered( meaning that he has ultra and 2 bars or more)
also he can super safe jumps as well cause his super has only 2 frames of startup, sagat can as well which is why i dont safejump against super stocked sagats (or chuns for that matter) unless i’m trying to bait the super.
against chatracters that are easily safe jumped… they can still focus backdash which nullifies the os i talked about earlier… but that loses to an immediate cr.lp upon landing cause focus backdash takes 4-5 frames to come out… and the cr.lp counts as a second hit…i use chun, i get true safe jumped alot… you use sagat, its alot harder to do it to him, and if someone fucks up they lose a GRIP of hp against him… not so versus chun, so, people probably arent making it there JOB to safejump against you like they do me…
but yeah as i said, mixing up jump timing against ryu is probably dubious for most of the cast… sagat/gief/gouken ie hard hitting mofos are probably the only characters that have proper risk rewards in there favor.
whether they have good untechable safe jump setups… is another matter entirely
-dime
This is probably a good example of a safe jump on the shotos
[media=youtube]R7CjVvlbtSk"[/media]
All I’ve ever wanted is for the damage on Sagats normals to be toned down tremendously. It’s irritating to work very hard for a substantial lead only to have him even it up with two or three mashed st. HP’s or st. HK’s.
That Skatan video…why is he mashing out that SRK like that? auto-correction is the only way to safely reversal on wake-up or cross-up. shivers What the average Sagat and Ryu player will look like once that input style becomes main stream… bad times =(
WTF? How did this thread turn into Ryu safe jump discussion? I just jump in as ambiguously as possible and pray. :lol: SFIV fucked up when they made his shoryu 3 frame start up any ways. That’s pretty much exactly how long you get to reverse on wake up in the first place. I thought 5 frame slide under a moving freight train c.MK was good enough.
Sagat needs to be nerfed, plus what was that flashing black screen thing he did in the Abel vs Super video?
Niggas safe jump me all fuckin day lolol.
Gouki and Ryu especially when they mix up with ambiguous tatsu/jump in nonsense. Ryu can cross up with jump fierce and that shit is HELLA ambiguous. Fucking nonsense I swear.
i stand corrected.
but then you “should” know about backdash not being an end all be all (for “my mindgames” )… shouldn’t you?
also i was never arguing as to the validity of ambiguous jumpin timings… simply saying that it could be done.
-dime
well i dont kno why this is even a thread:confused: he is powerful and got a new move in ssf4 to compinsate for his damage being reduced,what else does he need?
Yeah I love how Ryu can cross you up with j.HP when he isn’t actually crossing you up.