i was watching ur vid. i started using lp and jp hk a while ago and i found i was having the same trouble. it look like a safe jump. the problem i found just like u that u can be grabbed and it kinda ruined everything. what i did was i started osing late grabs. it took a bit but i figured out how to late os grab. so when they wake up grab, u tech, if they reversal, u block. because its technically an empty jump because theres no way ur normal will land behind any way. i mostly use it to bait the dp after ai land or see what they do with the first safe jump. ty for the info
Hi spitfire.
As you can see in the vid, all of my safe jumps can hit if you time them correctly : LATE (but not too late) jHK/jHP. The reason why my setups are harder than the « classic » ones relies there, they are difficult to time.
Train against a dummy to get the timing.
Then, you should not enter the tech/not tech mix-up at okizeme, 'cause you lose your offensive advantage. That’s a problem every safe-jumper (including akuma) has to face.
You should choose before, during the jump, either you want it to be a regular safe jump or a fake one. Even with regular safe jumps, you should gamble then if you’re going to block or continue your combo at landing, otherwise you’ll get thrown.That’s why you should keep in command of the mindgame : you should be the one to choose either to attack or just to bait.
Usually, once their reversals have been blocked and punish once or twice, they’ll stop mashing shoryukens, and you can start going straight for combos or blockstring. Do not fake-jump every time ! =D
If they start wake-up throwing, then do a regular safe-jump and go straight for the combo. They won’t try it twice, i assure you. ^^
Most good players facing a safe-jump mix-up will just block, you should just start thinking what sort of mix-up you gonn’a do on landing. Don’t freeze at landing once they stopped reversing, go for the combo. As Jozhear said, you have the frame advantage.
Safe-jumps are just another mindgame, nothing more. =)
the thing is i have already practiced it and yes. it becomes a problem character to character but when u os, u never lose ur offensive. its ment to remain offensive and eleminate counter options such as backdash, grab, some srks and other reversals. when u input os, if they block, it doesnt activate which allows u to continue ur combo. the reasoning for the late tech is to prevent jumping in to early accidentally. but if they reversal, u block and if they down, u have counter hit set up.
its all about how u use it. ive read everything and applied it to my fighting style. i was just trying to add a hint into ur setup, if used correctly to eliminate reversal options
Then that’s just a way to play it, and i respect that. =)
**But it would only apply ****when fake-jumping. **Is that what you meant ? Your OS could be good in that case, 'cause even blocking ones would be confused. I’ll give it a try. =)
One could also try to OS block/Tech/cLK by inputing cLP cLP and down back, just like akuma does. The main difference being he can combo after an cLK and Claw does not. I know that OS loses to slow reversals (like ultras) 'cause i’ve got a good akuma in my contacts and I know the cLK comes out. But maybe it would do against shorykens ?
I fear that since it’s an empty jump, there is no block-freeze, so it’s not the best setup for trying to OS. We’ll see i guess.
ok. i dont think you understand what im trying to say and also the full parameters of Osing.
when u do an os, u are still in the air. so if i do jump hk xxxx hk while holding down back(still in the air). u hence then use an OS. this way:
-if a person backdash or do a something with about 1 fram of invic, u will sweep/ sweep trade.
-if they block, u do not do slide and can continue into stand fierce(this takes pretty good timing and alot of practice) or cr mk.
so if i do cr lp after izuna and than jump in. while in the air i do hkxxx cr grab tech i will:
- tech grab or get dped if i dont do it right.
- if i did it right, the grab tech wont come out and i can cr mk
at this point in the match of even doing shanagins, u should have already established:
- i know how to safe jump dp’s
-he has to meters so i wont ever try to swing on my safe jumps
-i know he will or wont dp.
like u said earlier, its a great mix up. but a mix up and pointless with out set up. and because u should be proficient at safe jumping, which allllllllllllll vegas should be, u can tell when ur safe jump will whiff and will not hence the OS grab. no one will always do it perfect and alot of people watch how u jump and will know ur jump was late or too early. only u will know its gonna be perfect so using OS will GREATLY improve ur chances.
im not telling u, ur wrong or ur not saying this correctly. im adding in there is an option to remain safe and offensive
OK, so let’s work about it. =)
Indeed. In fact i’m neither familiar with OS (since Claw wasn’t exactly the OSing type to me) nor with SMS english, so i’m sure having a tough time understanding here. ^^
But i’m sure we’ll get some use of this anyway.
mmhh.
A - 3 framers
-
If you do anything late in the air, it will add 3 frames of recovery and you’ll get dped. Including OS, i tried. There is just nothing you can do against a shoryuken. You can’t safe jump a shoto. Are we OK on this ?
-
If you fake-jump (early HK) and then cLP cLK OS in the late frames of the jump, you’ll recover in time, but according to my tests :
— SRK will counterhit you ('cause a cLK would be starting to come out)
— Wake-up grab will be teched
— trades and counterhits in the shotos favor with lights
— cLK comes out normally if he just blocks
*If you fake-jump (early HK), land and then immediately crouch tech OS, according to my lab :
— SRKs get blocked =D
— Wake-up grabs get teched
— Shoto’s lights will come out before yours and get blocked
— cLK comes out if the shoto just blocks
— The shoto gets counterhit if he does anything slower
This last OS option is interesting indeed, Spitfire. =)
B - 4 fs and slower reversals
-
Fake-jumps : no reason to use that against them. =)
-
When safe-jumping and** late air OSing**
— On hit nothing comes out indeed
— On block a cLK should come out (but it doesnt sometimes, don’t know why)
— You get beaten by reversals (crouch tech OS = cLK)…
— I don’t get anything reliable against grabs. In fact if they grab at wake-up they get hit, and if they grab after blocking nothing comes because of the blockstun. Maybe further testing would help.
The fact is that, as Joshear said, you’re heavily positive on block so you have time to follow by a cMK anyway. Anything they’d do would be frame trapped by a cMK, and heavily punished.
If think you’ll have the time to hitconfirm your safe-jump without needing OS. The key thing being not to mash the cMK right after the jHK, but slightly delaying it.
To me your OS is mostly interesting on landing after fake-jumping a shoto. Now if you get different results, if you could show us with a video that would be great. =)
Yeah, i usually always fake-jump my first attempt to see if he is of the reversal type or not. Or just to teach him not to mash. ^^
now we are on the same page.
imo, when u know which one your doing either by accident or on purpose, u can tell how you will jump in which you will be required to make the correct decision. If you noticed he just grabs everytime you mess up when u try to safe jump than a os grab after a messed up safe jump will stop you from getting grabbed because no other option will work.nothing other than jumping will work in which a good player will either dash forward dp or auto correct dp or just super/ultra.
Its mainly for the fact jump or the empty after cr mk xxxx jf empty. I noticed when playing some ppl online, instead of dp, they jus grabbed once they say me land. sometimes it was empty and sometimes it was sliiiiightly to early so i would land and get grabbed and couldnt swing or move. so for kids like them i jus safe jump os cr grab so when i landed, i didnt get grabbed if it missed.
honestly i stopped trying to mess with cr lp or lk because u get the better result from cr mk and mp. if u want to fake, u jus empty and ur safe to all reversals. timing is not a real issue and in the opponents mind, its a 50/50 guess. he will hk or wont hk. i have to guess right without meter.
a great idea for shotos, and i should dr claw this online. after izuna dash forward and just walk back. idk y but sooooooo many people try stuff after that. NEVER under estimate ur walk back. its freakin amazing.
EDIT: i got a playlist with about 9 matches on youtube atm. im lookin to make it bigger tonight. just type TSC Spitfire.theres 3 more up there i didnt post. 2 of me losing while trolling and one me playing hakan(accident) and gettin my tail whooped.
Yep. To me it’s the classic dash bait : once they’ve been dash + grabbed once, they begin to fear dashes. ^^
Though i’m used to backdashing when baiting. I’ve got a good ryu in my contact, who likes to kara-throw at wake up, and that shit reaches far ! =D
Backdashing could also be an alternative when fake-jumping, now that we’re on the topic. Too obvious to be used everytime, I’m afraid, but the mix-up with real safe-jumps could be good.
Anyway, thx for your thoughts, Spitfire. =)
np. its perfect against ryu. if u back dash ch, it will stuff everything but srk. it may trade but its a great trade because hes floating slowly and cant do anything. and no air recover
I’ll post what I’ve got, as far as tricks. Keep in mind, I haven’t looked over threads in a long time, so I don’t know what’s out there (besides Jozhear’s awesome Seth crossup), so I’ll just post a few things I’ve learned, may be a repeat.
EX Barcelona Crossup
Forward throw, crouch, EX Barca
works on:
Ryu (DP), Ken (DP), Dudley (DP, Machine Gun, Ducking), Seth (Teleport), Gouken (MP/HP/EX Counter BEATS you), Akuma (K Teleport), Gen (Upkick), Dan (DP), Sakura, Oni (MP DP), Abel (EX Roll, EX CoD), Viper (HP TK, EX Seismo), Bison (EX EVERYTHING, Teleport), Cammy (Can of sprite, spin knuckle), Deejay (Up kicks), Evil Ryu (Teleport), Guile (LK Flashkick), Zangief (EX Greenhand), Rufus, Balrog (Headbutt), Feilong (Chikin wing, Upkick), T Hawk (MP DP), Rose (Soul Throw)
semi:
Honda (downback), Ibuki (downback), Yun/Yang (downback), Juri (downback),
DELAY:
Sagat (DP),
doesn’t work on: (haven’t tested adjusted timing vs these guys yet tho)
Makoto, Chunli, Dhalsim, Cody, Guy, Hakan, Blanka, Fuerte, Vega, Adon
Parenthesis is what they can do to avoid the crossup, besides blocking, of course.
Max range sweep, whiff cr.lk and cr.lp, then do EX Barca.
Haven’t tested it yet on others, but it works on Ryu.
And against Seth, if you do [CH, Sweep], and then as he’s getting, do another sweep, you’ll stay on the same side until he is fully awake, where you’ll magically appear behind him. You are safe to all reversals (throws whiff), and you are at enough advantage to beat out his pokes.
It was described inwwmajin’s main topic, but it is nice to notify anyway. =)
At the contrary, it’s the first time i see those setups. How much precise do you have to be in the range of you sweep ? Have you got setups to do it meaty ?
Darn, that’s why kazunoko called us top tiers, we can use dark magic now ! =D
It looks like a bug. I’ll try it anyway. ^^
But that’s just lame to do a sweep after a CH. Does that work without CH before ?
Ok two jumps i use but i’m not to sure if theyre safe or my opponents just suck are:
Izuna>hold back and as soon as vega moves do st lp>J. mp (this works well with empty jump cr. mk mixup or J. lk>throw) if you plug a slide while in the air after the J. mp/lk you stuff back dashes also
Izuna>st. lp>Empty jump>Cr mk is a meaty also
can someone give me a clue on how to land CH…i like the setups but its just such a retarded move since ryu cr mp after beets everything after it is blocked crouching…and at max range it wiffs on crouching opponents…
the only time i get it to land is on a punish for wiffed dp
The other one is Izuna>fwd dash>Nj. mk (i like this one cuz if you do empty jump youre in kara trow range) (can do same mixups as the one above)
ok i checked em…3 frame reversals rape "Izuna>hold bask>st lp>Jmp
the second one Izuna dash fwd nj. mk is safe based on my test…
3 framers will beat every time-based safe-jump, 'cause you need 3 frames of recovery for late jump attacks. =)
However, you could beat them with hitbox based safe-jumps : with jMP for example, you could jump safely a shoryuken because your hurtbox is way behind your hitbox. Meaning that at max range you could hit them while their shoryus would whiff. =)
Check those setups. You will know what to do after an izuna, a backthrow, a foward throw and a CH-ST. 
Hm nice, never noticed that you made a Video. Did I overread it or did you never announced it here? Anyway, good work!
Edit: And I would gladly pay capcom 20$ to get this googles-claw costume 
I posted it only once, that’s why it’s not very noticeable. I like the teacher-Claw too, even if it was a pain to get his eyes to fit into the glasses =D
Thx for your words, man. I learnt some of the things I know today by watching your PC replays. There aren’t so many really good Claws wandering on PC actually, but you’re one of them.
Learnt from me? You must confuse me with someone who knows what he is doing
soo The other one is Izuna>fwd dash>Nj. mk is a hit box based safe jump …although nj mk doesnt have the superior hit box as J. mp it seems to me that ryu cannot reach vega in time to hit him with reversal dp
I’m not sure about that, because if you foward dash you end up quite close to your opponent. So your hurtbox ends close as well. And njMK hitbox is within the hurtbox, meaning it doesn’t have hitbox priority.
backthrow jMP’s safe jump does only work on 3 framers because you jump from very far away, and most shoryukens get out of range. I don’t see how they could get out of range while neutral jumping at point blank range… X_X
If I record my claw to cMP EX izuna, then foward dash then jump and late njMK, then if I play as ryu… a reversal shoryuken does beat the njMK. =/
I dont want to believe i suck at dp that much…I check it out AGAIN when i get home…