Safe Jump / Option Select Guide

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
161

I don’t think you suck at DP, Neth, but I’ve got a bit of experience in testing/creating safe jumps setups, and I know there are two things you must make sure to validate your setup :

You take Claw as second character in training mode :

— First, you record your setup on hit, to make sure that your setup is not an empty jump
— Second, with your same recorded setup, you try to mash a DP

The only safe jump that beated 3 framers DP was the backthrow-jMP one, there is no other able to to that to my knowing. And it was only close-ranged DP, like the ones of Ryu, it got nailed by longer ranged ones (ken HP SRK). =)

Anyway, you could try it against four framers (like yuns DP for example).

162

Well, I did tested it too.
It kind of works… fuck.
Against ryu the only DP that beats its the EX.
The others are blocked. I think that in the first frame of srk hitbox it does NOT touch the hurtbox of vega, only in the second active frame it will.
Thus you are able to block.

163

Mmmh ? I tested it with AE, I’ll retry with 2012… but I don’t understand how this can possibly work : the hurtbox of your jump is way larger than the hitbox, meaning there is no way you can hit a high priority move such as a shoryuken, without it hitting you.

I’ll give it another try. Maybe Neth has discovered an unoticed tweak in njMK hitbox.

EDIT : I tried with 2012, and it worked. I think they changed something about njMK hitbox, cause there is no way it could have such priority with the shitty hitbox it had in SSF4 or in AE.

— Works vs all Ryu’s DP aside EX just as Haztlan said
— Works vs all Ken’s DPs (O-O) aside super. Even backthrow safe-jump wasn’t that good
— Same with Akuma
— Fails against Guile’s flashkicks, I’ll do more testing later.

Anyway, great setup Neth, I apologize for not giving you credit before. You discovered something which is really worthier than my setups vs 3 framers. I wonder if it would work with other neutral jumps…

164

Wow, thanks alot for posting that new setup Neth, and everyone else for helping to clarify. When I have time after work tomorrow, I plan on testing to see if it’s safe against Gouken’s super.

165

I’ve done some research about that njMK mystery, capturing it at 60 fps to see if I could get a clue about it :

Spoiler

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1493/safejumpnjmktweak.jpg

So, Ryu HP shoryuken having a 3 frames startup, frame 4 is the first active one. As you can see it whiffs while the njMK still hasn’t recovered. In following frames, srk hitbox is in fact diagonal and much thinner, so it’s whif is purely related to range and claw crouching. It’s funny seeing Claw with that punch in front of his head and kinda dodging it as he crouches. In fact he is only hit at frame 8, with the later hitbox of Ryu’s knee.

With EX, Claw seems to be hit at the 5th frame, while he’s recovering. So it’s probable that longer ranged 4 framer reversals would hit him too. I’ll do some testing about it, but I think that while this being an extremely good setup vs shotos, my « old » setups could be better against 4 framers.

Still with this, I wonder if they didn’t tweaked Vega’s njMK hurtbox. But it could be purely a matter of range combined to shoryuken’s hitboxes. To be continued…

EDIT : tests against some of the cast.

[details=Spoiler]Izuna drop, foward dash, neutral jump & late njMK safe-jump :

Ryu : all SRK aside EX whiff or get blocked, EX hits — Super hits and hurts — Both ultras are blocked ! =D
Ken : all SRK whiff or get blocked — Super hits and hurts — Both ultras blocked
Akuma : all SRKs whiff — Super gets stuffed =D — U1 connects, and rapes — U2 whiffs =D
Dan : all SRK whiff aside EX which connects — Super blocked — Both ultras blocked
Seth : all SRK whiff — Super & both ultras blocked
Gouken : adequate parry moves will hit — Tatsus whiff or get stuffed — Super hits — Ultra 1 blocked
Oni : all srk whiff/stuffed/blocked — super stuffed — Both ultras blocked
E. Ryu : all srk blocked — Super stuffed — Both ultras blocked

4 framers :

Guy : EX senpu blocked — U2 whiffs
Yun : all DP’s blocked aside EX which connects (only one 4 framer) — Both ultras blocked
Blanka : EX vert ball blocked - Hori ball stuffed — Electricity whiffs — Both ultras blocked
Zangief : Lariats stuffed — EX SPD ² EX running grab hit — U1 stuffed =D
Guile : all flashkicks hit — Medium super blocked — Ultra 1 blocked

5 framer :

Fei long : all flame kicks whiff — Super & U1 blocked — U2 connects

Slower :

— Sagat : LP DP whiff, others blocked — Super stuffed — Ultras blocked
— Chun-li : EX spinning bird blocked — Super trades — Ultras blocked
[/details]

— Timing is not that easy, but when done correctly it’s much safer than I thought. I think it’s properties against shotos are essentially related to distance, which is huge. It’s so big that even if your opponent sees it coming and tries to wake-up throw you, his throw will whiff, which is extremely good.

— Appears to whiff on crouching vs some characters. Whiffs even more often if the njMK is mistimed (at best, should be done at 2/3 of the fall).

As a conclusion, it’s definitely a worthy setup against shotos. Against the rest of the cast it works OK against most. It’s just less damaging than the cLK/jHK old setup vs 4 framers, but safer against anyone but Guile. I would avoid it against Guile and Zangief. =)

166

Thanks a lot for your extensive info TriasNT.

167

This is wrong. 3f moves in this game hit on the 3rd frame. Frame 3 is the first active one. The reason it doesn’t hit claw is because he is out of range by a pixel or two.

168

You’re welcome. To be honest, I did it to compensate me not giving enough credit to Neth at the beginning. Neth is the one you should be thanking, it’s his setup after all. :wink:

Yep. I checked by watching at claw’s throws hitboxes, 3 framers moves first active frame is the third one. My bad. =)

169

Anyone have any good option selects to punish a back-dash after a hard knock-down? Basically all I am doing currently is trying to guess when they will back-dash and hit them with a cosmic heel into scarlet terror. Back-dashing seems to be the bane of my pressure game after I get a good hard knock down.

170

I don’t know much OSes, but I do use some moves that OS several opponent options :

— cHK will OS backdashes/throw/high guard. Due to it’s reach it’s the nemesis of backdashers, and it will give you untechable knockdown.
— You could also try M/H RCF, which is less risky and can be more damaging. It will only OS throws/backdashes, but can give you a positional advantage by pushing your opponent to the corner. It’s also able to reach teleports due to it’s longer range.

Overall I do prefer cHK, 'cause it’s mad cool to beat a predicted backdash with it. ^^

171

cHK is mad unsafe though; if you guessed wrong you are eating so much damage; correct me if i’m wrong but doesn’t M/H RCF hit them as if they were in the air if they back-dash? So you only get one little roll hit?

172

In fact they’re not hit during the middle of the backdash, 'cause the RCF moves a bit slower. It usually catches them during the recovery frames at the end of it, so you get the damage + frame advantage to follow-up after it. =)

And yes, cHK is unsafe… but it’s not that hard to predict when an opponent would backdash/throw, and I have good success with it despite of the risk.

173

I’m not sure I understand you. The way you punish backdashes with c.HK is usually with an option select (as in, not using the move if they do not backdash.) I’m not trying to be mean, I just don’t really…understand what your asking.

174

Hmm so are you saying for instance if I forward throw them, I should dash-up sit on crouch block and react to a back-dash with cHK?

175

I don’t think that’s what he meant.

An OS consist in inputing several inputs at the same time (during the block freeze that follows a blocked jump for example, but not exclusively). Then the computer chooses the most favorable of your inputs.

For example if you crouch tech you input block, LP and LK… and the computer does chooses to tech if your opponent grabs you, to block if he attacks you, or to LK if he does not do anything. That’s a real OS.

But that was not what I was talking about when i said cHK beated both dashes/throw/high guard, that’s just cHK properties (even if it sorta OS what opponent could do), an it’s still a guess.

It could be possible to input a cHK mixed with other inputs in a real OS, but I’m not sure about that due to HK priority over other buttons. Others may know.

176

Alright, so I was just testing that Izuna drop>dash fwd>nj.MK safe jump on Guile…and every time I did it, I landed in time to block every reversal flashkick. You might want to go back and test that TriasNT, because it’s working on Guile %100 for me.

177

I had it sometimes blocked too, it depends on the timing in fact. The problem is that if you time it to get it blocked everytime, then it will wiff as well sometimes even on standing opponents.

I recorded precisely the timing which hitted 100% of the time and which blocked all non EX srks of Ryu. With that timing, all flashkicks hit exactly like Ryu’s EX shoryuken. All my tests are done with that timing (and opponent DP at reversal timing as well).

You can block Guile’s flashkicks by triggering a bit earlier, but at risk of whiffing your jump. =)

178

Ya that’s the part i didn’t really understand is i tried other inputs with cHK but due to what you mentioned earlier (HK having priority) i don’t think it’s possible. Thanks for the input.

179

Let’s say I want to do a meaty cr.lp, followed by another cr.lp, with an OS cr.hk in case they backdash. Executing this is not like an OS tech, where I press my desired normal plus lk lp together. If I do that, cr.hk will indeed take priority and always come out. What I must do is input the cr.hk immediately after I input the cr.lp, and then proceed with another cr.lp.
In case your opponent decides not to backdash, your hk input will not register, since you pressed it while your opponent is in blockstun. This is because the game prolongs animations (sorta, that Ajunta fellow was alot better at explaining that I am) for 17 (or something like that) frames every time a hit/block is registered. As such, your cr.hk is input when it actually cannot come out, whilst the cr.lp you input afterwards will, netting you 2 cr.lp.
In case you opponent backdashes the first cr.lp, it will whiff, causing your cr.hk to come out and tag him (no prolonged animations in case of a whiff). Inputting the second cr.lp will have no effect, since you’re in the cr.hk animation.
It’s the same as when you OS cr.hk on a jump in, basically. Only harder to execute, since you have a strict time window (rather than all fuckin day) to input it.

180

Ah I see, thank you; i’ll make sure I practice that.