Safe Jump / Option Select Guide

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
101

i just tested it and you’re right, whiffing a c.mk is not a meaty, haha. but as for c.jab, it seems like a meaty cause i used other people’s super to super freeze vega and comparing that to the hitbox video data, i’m certain it’s a meaty. not even zangeif can spd it. i don’t know any other way to test this…

EDIT: double checked it to be meaty. i linked 2 c.mk afterwards. A c.lp + jump = 38+13 = 51 frames on landing. since they wake up at 59 frames, you got 8 frames of free time. with a c.mk, you’ll hit the guy on the last active frame, giving you a +7 frame advantage at best. if you missed the timing for the c.lp AND the c.mk timing by one frame, it’s still meaty!

don’t know what to make up of this but you can quickly jump after the ex fba and then do a meaty piece of mercury or slide. slide gives +1 on block, but that’s a bit pointless if i can just set up the c.mk for more potential damage…

102

Im gonna test this later cuz i find a lot of my safe jumps loose to ryu cr. mk. As the plan is to not hit the opponent with your jump in doesnt it make more sense (easier to time) to Izuna>immediately jump> then wiff cr lp then mix up. This way you should have all the charge you could possibly need or even better you can walk back a bit after the jump in for timing or to setup kara. Another question…for this meaty setup i usually use izuna> slide>meaty, Isnt this easier?

…
I just watched a game with germanluger vs ryu and he was nailing airthrow anti air like a shoryuken…I Fail at life :frowning:

103

actually, the point of that set up is to make the opponent guess if it’s a high hit or a low hit. low hit being meaty is like an extra advantage. i just want a set up where it’s hard for your opponent to guess high or low, similar to what ken can do after a heavy shoryuken. he can cross up or cross up low hit.

104

I don’t know if it’s been said but Cody can beat backthrow safe jump os slide with ex-zonk. Found that out this weekend

105

IIRC, everyone except Hakan, Abel and T.Hawk has meterless ways of beating the OS slide after backthrow. With EX and/or the right ultra, the entire cast has the tools to punish you. Cody doesn’t even need to ex zonk. He can just crouch and make you slide right into his block.

106

yep, the only reason i do that “safe jump” is because people aren’t aware that they can crouch under it

if they can, and they know they can, no reason to use that tactic

107

Quick update here.
I realize I ssaid that post-ST, backdash, jump, is a safe jump on characters who tech the recovery.

however, it didn’t take long for me to notice that most characters are too far away for the jump into to hit as they wakeup - not all, but some. J. hk is most likely not going to hit, but j. lk will hit generally about 50-60% of the time.

What I do now instead is forward dash, and wait, then jump. I’ve noticed already that when I do the safe jumps without pressing a button, I can force mistakes much more easily than the telegraphed safe jump set up.

In addition, I can just jump, then go low. It’s a tricky mixup that is generally pretty fast, and also low-risk because people should be worreid about using reversals as it is.

For the record however, it is useful to use the buttons as a placeholder for your safe jump until the timing is really ingrained. If you’re just thinking “yeah i’ll just safe jump” you might have trouble because the timing isn’t familiar to you.

Also, it didn’t take me long to realize this but option selects aren’t possible against characters with 4-5 frame reversals. The reason for this is because after a jump, you are able to block on the 4th frame of their wakeup (and only the 4th, which is why you can’t block DPs) and also tech throws, but nothing else. This obviously leaves out KKK flip and sweep which are Vega’s best option select tools. Also, teching throws does not include crouch teching, although you will get those to come out anyway if that’s the input you use. The reason is the game saves the input for all of the recovery frames of your jump and does it for you as soon as you’re ready to move.In essence, any option select you actually do will come out on the 6th frame only. For this reason, look at your frame data and study who you can option select.

The main reason this is a bummer is vega would shut down fei long soooooooooooo badly with a KKK flip option select. Unfortunately that is not the case and he can Flame kick FADC for +1 iirc.

This is why if you’ve ever tried it, jump in, cosmic heel combo is easy - or at least, easier than it should be. Technically it’s a 1 frame link but the only hard part about it is hitting the jump in as deep as possible, snice the cosmic heel input is stored and it comes out with frame perfect timing no matter when you press the buttons during the 4 frames of jumping recovery.

I used to use that combo a lot, especially against other Vegas, chun lis, fuertes, etc., but it’s not worth it now because cosmic heel is so heavily punishable up close like that. But, as far as risks are concerned, it’s probably worth it here or there because the reward is high and you’ll most likely get thrown at worst.

108

^

  1. Easiest way to time safe jump after ST is the same as timing one after Izuna Drop, low strong. No dashing back/forward is required, safe against Fei’s Flame Kick and everything else with that start-up (technically safe against 3 frames too, if you just empty jump).
  2. Jump-in into Cosmic Heel was never a useful combo, simply because you could always jump-in (confirm), low forward xx ST. If you want to option select flip a reversal or slide a back dash, you make the choice before the jump.
109

Are there anymore safe jumps that were left out?

110

Big fan of your work Joz…my Vega wouldn’t be half of what it is now without your posts…even all the way back in Vanilla. Props.

111

^ Thank you sir.

112

i’ve totally forgot about jump in HP comboing into CH. I don’t think i’ve used that since vanilla.

113

Hey Joz, I got myself a video recorder/editor that does a decent job of recording every frame and being able to slow the replay down.
Let me know if there is something you’d like tested or help with trying on the cast.

A couple things I’ve come to realize are important considerations for training mode tests:
Waking up after getting hit by Scarlet Terror seems to have variable air timing per chararcter (Ryu/THawk) and also varies from your positioning and combo timing, so followup okizeme needs to be timed on the fly (you can’t usually say “then just wiff a cr.MP and jump in for the right timing”)

Izuna Drop DOES always leave you at the same timing relative to when you hit the ground, but be aware that the training room dummy might take more or less time to grab the character out of the air if you recorded the attack mid-screen and are now playing it back in the corner.

There are different types of rising animations after knockdowns, and the stand-up timing varies depends on what animation the opponent gets off the ground with. Izuna Drop and Forward Throw cause one type of rising animation, while cr.HK, back Throw, and Air Throw all force a different type - even though all of them are untechable knockdowns. For example, compared to the cast, Dhalsim has later-than usual timing for his belly wakeup but relatively normal timing for his back rise.

114

Yeah, I’ve noticed what you’re referring to about scarlet terror wake ups. If info on hard knockdown is to be trusted and applied to scarlet terror KD’s, then my setups should be 1 frame delayed against Vega as compared to Ryu but I’ve noticed they might be the same? Or at any rate, what you’re referring to about floatiness is probably 100% accurate.

And yeah, the thing about getting up from belly up / down knockdowns is strange, what with Yang’s crazy invincibility and all (fuck that character).

Hmmm, if we’re talking about recording frame by frame though… let me think for a while, I think i might come up with some stuff that I’d like you to test if you don’t mind. Thanks Meteo.

115

hey guys, i found another safe jump to try but its another safe jump the takes alot of precision. i dont know if its been mentioned before, my head is about to explode from all the reading but for shit sakes, say ur in the corner and u land the EXFBA and u choke and hit them with the claw and knock them out the corner. i have had great succuss with as soon as u land u do and really fast wall jump out the counter and use MP. i havent been shor yet, i either stuff it cuase i suck and do it late or i block it. experiment with it let me know what u find. mind u u mean wall jump extremely fast btw

116

bump

should be floated or at least remain at the top

117

Ok so i was playing hakan for the last couple weeks and his option selects are AWESOME so im wondering why these doesnt work for vega. hakan anti air is crap so he utilises options with wiffing norbals with a buffered dash or tackle inside. Ive started it with vega and its just as easy as tapping forward on a far light kick and buffer the second fwd inside to get a fwd dash of the opponent dodges somehow. Another problem i was having is peeps jumping out my cr. mk, cr. mk pressure, so far what i noticed is that i can cr. mk while holding down back slide to up back (buffered) then f. mp. If the opponent blocks i cancel into rcf and if he dodges (back dash, jump) i get a jump back.
another thing is that vega has the ability to option 2 specials in a normal since we can charge down back. do cr lp, cancle at active frames with down fwd rcf then hold up forward and finish fba. Ive been trying this out U1 but im a bit sloppy so havent gotten anything solid yet.
Hakan uses this as his primary tool to defend against jumping and with these tools i could worry less about peeps jumping out of my normals. the sweep option mentioned earlier works wonders on back-dashers but im hoping i can work out some setups to tag peeps with CH, or U1 on jump back or repeated cross up attempts…

118

Played around with it a bit. Option Slide works the best. So we can c. lp or mk, cancel into RCF and option slide right after. gives you some chip on block and a slide to counter back dash (this is general knowledge) evade N/j and forward jump. Some jump back attack can tag your slide (eg balrog and hakan)
Option with U2 works well vs back dashers however your ultra wiffs in the opponent jump and thats just a waste. St lk with an untra 2 inside works ok also since st lk tags jump in its start up frames however you sometimes get ST.
Option select ultra one had a lot of interesting finds but its way to character specific to rely on. Option select using ultra 1 on your wall seems to wiff Nj, lose to fwd jump and connect to back jump as they are landing so here they can standing block but for some reason they cant crouch block. Option select with u1 on the opponents wall tags Nj, connects to back jumpers (chance they can mash an attack here to beat you out) and connects on fwd jump on their landing (they can standing block). The normal you use to wiff affects your timing i practiced using cr lp, st lk and cr mk and my opponent was ryu.
Sooo was fun wasting ure time…nothing there…vega options are SHIT…

119

Option selects are always for close fighting situations, vega is more of a midrange character so it is only natural for his option selects to be meager at best.

As for jumping away from your option selecting neth, you usually use option selects when he cannot avoid it by jumping or something like that.
Think like blockstrings or wakeup situations, jumping away from an option select poke should never happen unless you screw up the timing , since they have to use 4 frames to get in the air in wich they can be hit. You should be hitting him with the normal you used the option select with if he decides to jump.

Option select sweep remains the most reliable option offensive option select for vega to catch ppl abusing backdashes… since ultra/ST/FBA and the like all need charges build. Charge characters are mostly not build for option selects it seems :smiley:

120

so disappointed :frowning: