there is no way in hell i’ma spend 2 unnecessary meters on someone that mashes…
i just stop mid combo and wait for the whiff.
I saw a couple posts that probably missed one of the most important reasons people safe jump. It removes the added wakeup throw invulnerability. When you come out of blockstun, you have a few frames invul to throws, but when you are waking up, you have a ton. That’s why immediate throw on wakeup isn’t common. If it weren’t for that, there wouldn’t be nearly as much reason to use safe jumps. After a knockdown, you are plus 60 frames, which is plenty.
i’ve used these set ups 2 months ago when i saw tatsu using it. it’s funny how it’s only been figured out now. what i sometimes do is whiff a c.mk, empty jump and then a c.mk into combo, works very well after people start to block high. or for grab characters who thinks it’s smart to ex grab you, you just flip or back j.hp. i sometimes use c.lp to mess people up when they think it’s a c.mp.
I’ve been using it for a long time when I caught reiketsu using it. Joz was just nice enough to make a thread for everyone else.
Im not canceling the normal into the focus. Maybe im using the wrong word. its cr. mk then focus attack then back dash out after the focus is blocked or hits then continue with which ever setup.
oh you said FADC so … lol. just a regular normal… that is sooooo risky. If you whiff it you’re a sitting duck
Ive always wondered about canceling normals into FADC.
stuff like bison’s slide makes sense.
stuff like vega’s cLP and sHK doesnt make sense
in general though, Vega’s normals are crappy, like cat shit crappy for that purpose.
can we get a cancable slide at least? Or would it make him boring?
i was about to post something like"hey vega has good normals…" but then i remembered that cr.hp, cl.lk, cl.lp, st.lp, far hp are bs… so yeah crappy normals are crappy
well, in a sense of FADC usage and what not.
cr.lk, cr.lp are actually very good normals BTW
Far HP is not a crappy move it’s just situational. It’s recovery is shit so I usually use it as a finisher, and I rarely use it if my mask is on.
If the opponent has little life left and you throw that out (mask off) and it connects, a surprisingly huge chunk of their life will come off. However, you can be punished on hit so it’s best to use it as a final strike, from a distance.
Highly, highly situational but with damage like that it shouldn’t be shunned.
When people get too jumpy I like to walk back and fst HP…if I hit on the air they get air reset…so recovery is not a problem…if timed correctly also beats yun dash punch clean and its counterhit so you actualy end up with frame advantage and more damage…
cr.lp is very good (i was referring to close lp and close lk btw, i do like close mp and close mk tho), but cr.hp is just pathetic. About “fadcing” normals the real problem is the dash (too slow imo), but thats just me.
i see, i have to try that thx
Which two? The one after backthrow and the one after EX FBA have been known for quite a long time, as Destin said. The safejump after EX Walldive is also ridiculously easy to time, even without whiffing normals. I think everyone’s seen this Makoto do at SSsk11.There might also be a safejump after hitting U2.
I’m not sure about the fwd throw-> dash, st.LK setup though. It doesn’t look very meaty to me. Any way to calculate how many frames of time one has after a forward throw until the opponent wakes up?
Btw: St.HP(unlike st.MK) doesn’t have a huge low hittable box, which makes it good against low pokes like Ryu’s cr.MK. Also deals good damage in a single hit. I use it from time to time.
hasn’t only been figured out now, we’ve all been using it for MUCH longer than 2 months also. I’ve been using it since Vanilla.
I’m putting it into a format that makes sense and we can all understand why it works. hence the frame jargon.
EDIT: Sasaki, it’s true that I don’t have 100% confirmation on the st. lk after forward dash. However, I’ve never had the st. lk whiff, while I’ve had the c. lp whiff plenty of times. That’s enough for me to tell me that - at any rate - no matter how I do it, I can get the st. lk to consistently be meaty but not the c. lp, and that information is confirmed by frame data.
The best part about it is that against the slow wakeup characters, the c. mk is meaty, and that much is 100% certain. Unfortunately the combos don’t hit anyone but Dhalsim. But who cares, it freakin RAPES dhalsim, so go ahead and abuse it.
That’s my main drawback about the combo potential of the meatys here. However, if you get meatys to connect into c. mks, you get more damage, and it leaves you at a better spacing + much better frame advantage on hit and block. So it’s not a bad idea at all.
Also, I don’t know if I told ppl, but Reiketsu hits someone with ultra2 , whiffs c. mp, and does an EX FBA for the cross up. badass.
Also, dont know if i mentioned, but scarlet terror, backdash, jump forward, and j. lk is a good safe jump against a couple characters. J. RH can work against certain characters.
That’s only if they tech wakeup obviously. Then you just wait and neutral jump again if you’re confident in eyeballing the safe jump.
Low fierce will tag Chun/Rose out of back dashes if you safe jump/OS with it. Close jab, close short are for tick grabs/stuffing dive kicks and far jab/far strong stop jumps out of RCF pressure and cover dive kick angles. Low short could use an extra frame of love, though.
Edit:
For the safe jump guide, instead of trying to charge ST to beat specific EX grabs,you’re better off going for empty jump -> back dash or safe jump -> back dash in certain cases. Less risk, less difficulty and more potential damage than the ST option. Also, empty jump -> low xx EX FBA works pretty well, granted you can’t hit confirm it. Low forward has always seemed like the better option (even in Vanilla).
I was referring to the ex fba. Whiffing a c.mk, empty jump and then a c.mk will usually trick my opponents. Haven’t figured if it’s a meaty yet, but I don’t think so even though balrogs spam jab won’t even come out. I noticed that a lot of other characters have tricks like that where they empty jump and then into a c.lk, so i tried to come up with set ups that can have both options of a high/low game after a knock down.
I never really watched that many vids of Vega play so I was oblivious of this safe jump until I was preparing for a tourney and just so happened to run into some of tatsu’s vids.
I don’t like the idea of how makoto does his safe jump. It might be easy for the 1% of those who can nail 1 frame links without plinking, but for most people, whiffing normals is what makes certain that my safe jumps are safe. Of course, the bad thing about whiffing normals is that once your opponent figures you out, they know what’s coming…
not nessessarily…
you can empty jump land throw mix up…
more importantly though… most decent people will assume it’s a safe jump or have the timing down for spotting a safe jump anyway.
@niah
The setup you refer isn’t a meaty ,i am almost potitive it will lose to 3-frame jab wakeup.After izuna>cr.mk whiff, j.hk is meaty on most chars.
I 've tried it and even izuna>cr.jab whiff>empty jump cr.mk is not a meaty either.The only setup that seems to work as a meaty is izuna>crouch for a split second>empty jump cr.mk.