Thanks for the great post. This and frame data can be overwhelming for a newbie like me, but I love it all!
If Sagat chooses to reversal with an Ultra, Super, TU, or TK, then the opponent will be safe. Tiger shots get beat clean.
Tiger Shots get him tagged… anything else you can block it and punish him in recovery.
parabellum = fail reading comprehension ftw!
This is good shit!
Ryu’s SRK beats safe jumps? Unless the start-up is instant like Blanka’s EX ball or Ken’s FP DP in ST, this shouldn’t be the case. You sure you’re not just mistiming?
I retested the safe jumps on Blanka since I was having trouble safe jumping against him. Turns out you can safe jump against EX Vertical Ball.
All of Ryu’s DP hit on the 4th frame.
4 frames should be plenty for safe-jumping. All of Ken’s DPs had 4 frames of start-up in 3S, and it was safe jumpable. Ryu’s had 4 frames in A3, and it was also safe-jumpable.
It sounds like you might not be safe jumping with the deepest hitting jump-in that you could be. You never actually said what character/jump-in you were testing all this with. Not everyone can safe-jump to the same degree.
Hell, anything should be theoretically safe-jumpable unless it has 0 frames of start-up.
In Parabellum’s Defense, I also got confused by what you meant by this list based on your wording in your Legend.
Anyway, I do agree that this seems odd compared to other SF games. However, I’m confident that most of the information is correct, including Ryu’s.
Jump RH does not hit as late as jump FP. You should be using that for safe-jumps.
You know a safe jump in is very much dependant on the knock-down that occured prior. It’s not really as important which move the other character is doing on wake-up… generally they’re only going to stick to one or two reversal attacks. Reason they use those is because they are good reversals, which covers the safe jump in situation best as possible anyway.
I’m not sure if characters wake at different speeds in sf4, which is also a factor.
It is also dependant on the jump-in attack itself.
Why would you list moves that aren’t even going to be used as reversal, or even going to hit? Those are obvious. It’s like listing a normal attack.
Usually, instead of lists of safe jump in anything, you see, “this is a free jump-in setup”, for reasons listed above. The main thing that matters, I think, is what was the knockdown, and that’s more because it determines how much time one has to follow-up. It’s generally more complicated than just a list of moves…
I don’t know about this list…
It doesn’t matter what I use. All of the jump-ins are meatied.
EDIT: Nevermind, read it wrong
Wow. Guess its time to start ex-ing SPDs with Gief.
[quote="_Snake"]
http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo
Glossary
Safe (S): The reversal will either whiff or be blocked
Un-Safe (U): The reversal will beat the jump-in
Hit (H): The jump-in will beat the reversal
Trade (T): The reversal and jump-in will trade hits
ok, so lemme try to fully understand this. If you are playing against any of those characters you listed, then the move they do as a reversal will be either useless or useful against your jump-in meaty? (sorry if I’m repeating anything that was already mentioned =/ )
ex, if I’m playing against a Ken, his reversal lp, mp, ex shoryuken will not hit me if I land right next to him?
I thought Ryu’s DP hit on the 3rd frame? Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that the move actually hits on the last frame of start up (which is an unconventional way of displaying the data for 2d fighters, but is apparently common in 3d fighters(?)). So if it’s 3 frame start up, then it hits on 3rd frame. Can anyone verify this?
Snake: Nice info, can’t wait to try these out.
I’m curious about your methodology for gathering this data though.
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Did you set Ryu on record to do the safe jump? Or did you actually do each safe jump manually? I don’t know if each character has different wakeup speeds - but I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if they did.
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Also, what setup did you use to determine a safe jump - or did you just “eye-ball” it? For example, did you use a formula like: throw, dash back, c.mp, then jump attack (this is not actual safe jump setup, just an example)? Or was it just knock 'em down then jump at 'em?
Safe jumping should always work unless a move has 0 frames of start-up though. Like someone else said, it’s character dependent as well. Sakura’s cross-up MK hit way later than anyone else’s in A3 for example. This list seems highly suspect to me.
Also, about SPDs, if they SPD as wake-up, you should still be in the air, and if they do nothing, the jump-in should hit. That’s whole point of a safe-jump. Unless EX SPD somehow grabs you out of the air, there’s no reason why it should land.
Even in the event that EX SPD has some weird start-up invincibility, which I doubt it does, you should be able to jump away unless it grabs instantly like his ultra.
The thread is more about who you should safe jump, not when. Although, now that I think about it that’s not much of a guide 
. And I know there’s a lot of obvious stuff in there, but there’s also some not-so-obvious stuff I’m glad I tested (EX Yoga Blast has invincibility, Gouken’s EX Demon Flip has invincibilty, but Akuma’s doesn’t, etc.)
Correct.
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I recorded the safe jump on each character. Most characters have the same wake-up speed. Cammy and Blanka were the ones that were significantly different.
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Crouching RH, [pause], Jump-in.
It means this:
[LIST=1]
[]You jump at Ken and try to kick him
[]Ken does a reversal lp/mp/ex shoryu
[]You land on the ground
[]You block Ken’s shoryu (thus you are safe)
[/LIST]
If Ken decided not to shoryu, and instead just blocked. Then he will block your jump kick.
That’s a very unreliable way of testing this. Not to mention you used the wrong jump-in. Jump RH doesn’t hit anywhere near as late as jump FP.