Heh. Thought that would catch your attention. I’ve been screwing around with S-Groove a lot, and I actually really like it. My favorite team thus far is S-Cammy/Sagat/Rolento. Spamming level 1 Mine Sweeper as an escape is pretty effective. I guess this whole thread is to discuss the pros (unlimited l1 supers in red mode, dodging) and the cons (S-Groove sucks).
Yeah s-groove is god tier. You have to be God in order to win with that groove. jokes, people, jokes…
I think there’s supposed to be a general s-groove thread called “S-groove Thread,” might wanna search for that and delete this thread. It’s an old thread but raising it from the dead would probably be better (and more consistent in this section of the forums) than making this one. For the record I actually enjoy playing s-groove.
I already checked; there isn’t. S-Groove is fun, but it’s freaking hard to use. I do think it’s underrated, though.
How is spamming mine sweeper effective? That super has like a year of recovery. You can stand in the flash, watch the mines come out, pick your nose, block, pick your nose some more, and still have time to walk in, taunt, and do a full-out jumping combo.
Throw S-groove scrubs all day. No thought required.
Sure buddy. Thanks for the input on how exactly you’re going to do that…oh yea…no thought :looney:
At the same time, just DP everytime they attack.
I can contribute to this thread when I have time. I have lot’s of strats and info + I might be able to put some vids up of matches with S-Groove
i know a guy who plays s groove. he’ll lose 50 games in a row, then he wins 1 match, and he acts like he’s the man because he won with s. then he’ll lose 50 more in a row and tell me how he beat me that 1 game. that seems to be the general style of s groove players. they make such a big deal out of winning with that sucky groove and try to convince everyone it isn’t total ass.
exactly. i hate shit like that.
playing S groove is about as effective as taking birth control AFTER you’ve had the baby.
Sorry Reinert, but its the truth. Easiest shit in the world to bait a dodge and throw against S groovers. Doc B has been my main sparring partner since the game came out, and his S is the only one that’s ever given me trouble. Most likely b/c after playing him and his BS, every other S groover can’t compare.
S-Groove is banned for being broken like Akuma in ST. That’s why you don’t see it used in Tourny footage.
Don’t get me wrong, S-Groove is not my favorite, but I DO really like it. N-Groove is my favorite, since it allows for killer aggressive play. S is just fun for casuals.
I’ll give you the fact that most S-Groovers don’t know what they’re doing…
Dr.B - I used to rag on him on this board back in the day. For whatever reason he bugged me and I was being an ass admitedly. At the same time, I thought and posted the same shit you just said above years ago.
The groove has not been pushed and experimented with at all because of it being the worst of six and it being very difficult to use. There’s tons of shit people thought about this game that ended up being alterted/overcome and that’s with grooves and strats that are used constantly. Imagine what the general player doesn’t know about something that’s as static as S-Groove is.
You can it’s ‘for a reason’ but it’s undoubtedly uncertain because the lack of application is undeniable. I started using it for fun but began to realize how dangerous the top characters are in that groove. I’ve used S-Groove against many of the top players in Eastern Canada recently and it clearly does well. I recognize that some of them are not accustomed to fighting it; but the ones that are I’ve still been able to grow with their adaptation.
I tell you this: you’re not throwing me for free. Not unless I make a stupid mistake. It is very possible for me not to dodge, only dodge at times where you simply can’t throw me and counter hit jab/short for big damage if you start moving in to set that up. Another problem is that you waiting for a dodge gives me knowledge of what you’re doing and positioning yourself. It’s not hard to punish this strategy.
EDIT: Please don’t anyone interpret this as me trying to state S-Groove is top, or even not the worst groove…
Jay, I think the main reason it’s doing well is due to a lack of knowledge that people have with S-groove, add to that your depth of knowledge with it. Your S-groove was good, but with the lack of tools that S-groove has, it can only get you so far (competitively).
I guess a good way to look at it is this: even when everyone is using A-groove, and everyone knows what A-groovers can do, they still dominate. But put S-groove in the same situation, anyone would have a tough time winning with it.
Like Jay said. S-groove isn’t going to move up in tiers anytime soon. While it’s still one o f the worst grooves in the game, it’s by no means completely useless.
To be clear, I never said it was the backbone or even a major part of my strategy. It just happens to be free damage. Baiting and throwing dodges is something I consider myself to be pretty damn good at. I have some pretty nice 50/50s, option selects, whatever the term is that keep me safe and give me the time I need to see a dodge and throw. I wouldn’t say that its where the majority of my damage comes from in a match vs S though.
I’d like to play you sometime - I won’t be going to evo this year, but hopefully we can see sometime about this. I really hate theory fighter over the net.
PS - throwing you for free =p <3
s-groove ftw~ it would be god-tier if you could dodge-cancel into special or super though.
S-groove is not even nearly as useless as some people are making it out to be. Playing against someone who understands dodging well is the most frustrating shit in the world.
As a side note, I practice with my friends sometimes. Once in a great while, one of them will beat my main team and get all uppity. Anytime that happens, I’ll pick S-King (2), Kyosuke, and Dan, and go into total business mode. A sound thrashing from arguably the worst team in the game usually shuts them up quickly.
If only you can get to keep your bar every round if its not Maxed, unlimited Counter Atks in Red, Air Block(eh maybe), and charges faster like in CvS1.
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=89543
See there it is. S-Groove Thread. I didn’t have trouble finding it…
However the discussion in this thread is interesting. Maybe the mods can merge both of these threads? That would be nice.
Those who doubt S-groove should try s-cammy against a-bison (dictator). Cammy totally controls the match and Bison is forced to make a risky guess. The only problem is…if Bison guesses right, it’s business as usual, and S-cammy can punish for like…2000 damage? Not very threatening. Still…I prefer to have control in any situation where I’m facing an a-groove Bison. It does take a lot of work, but Cammy never has to guess the way Bison has to.
Of course pure theory fighting but I think giving S-Groove unlimited alpha rolls when red would really help balance it out. unlimited alpha counters would make it to good but alpha rolls could be fair.
I understand that but you have to realize I’ve been fighting an S-Groove player for 5 years now and despite how well I am at fighting S-Groove - there are so many tough matchups( i.e. K-Sagat vs. S-Sagat) and I can get my ass handed to me often enough. It was during these fights I began to see the potential with some characters.
I only started using S-Groove maybe 8 months max. I play against very good players here (a lot - they are all friends) and they haven’t really been able to transition to make my S-Groove substantially worse than grooves I’ve been using since the beginning. Hell, I get more OCV’s with S than any other groove.
S-Groove tools are lacking; but this is not an absolution to every character - even a single tool can benefit a character enough to surpass a set of less useful ones. Characters like Cammy barely make use of shit like roll, RC, air block, Custom Combos anyway. But she sure as hell benefits from those two dodge attacks.
S-Ryu gains a lot with Dodge and can change so many bad matchups (Blanka, Sagat and Yamazaki are actually decent fights).
S-Sagat has a dodge attack that punishes big characters so badly they can barely attack him. It’s a knockdown too, which can easily be round over not using anything but normals and tiger uppercut. Since noone can just come in or jump at him he often gets free charge->lvl 1 and his lvl 1’s do such nice damage. S-Sagat with unlimited lvl 1’s is probably the best comeback character in the game from what I’ve seen (even tournaments).
It might be only 6 - 8 useable characters out of 48 or whatever but you still only need 3 on a team.
I don’t think it’s that simple. I recognize it’s the worst groove overall and this point is suggestive as to why (especially with the comparison to the best groove) BUT:
I know someone who uses both A and S groove (PLA Soldier) and his S is generally much more successful.
I don’t have anymore more trouble winning with S-Groove than N or P and the difference between the rest isn’t that big - I’ve been using C and K for like 5 years compared to 8 months for S.
S-Groove is the hardest groove to use at high levels mostly because of such a high demand for attention, concentration, dexterity and patience.
If someone was willing to put the extra effort to learn how to use S-Groove effectively the situation will change dramatically for them.
It can depend a lot on the person but I know very well most people are looking for the easier solution and their losses aren’t accepted/learnt from properly because of the psychology behind ‘worst groove’ as opposed to ‘one of the best grooves’. Basically, it just takes more time to bring your execution level for S to the level of others; but if you’re able to (naturally or through practice) I can promise that the impressions of S-Groove change dramatically.