Ryu's okizeme

[MuayGio]

Hi all,

The more I play with Ryu, the more I’m becoming convinced that his oki game is a fundamental part of his offence. In a game where oki is actively discouraged and designed against, Ryu seems to have some of the stronger options to pressure the opponent on their knockdown.

Fundamentally, Ryu’s oki mixup is always going to be a throw/meaty mixup. He doesn’t have the tools to threaten a high/low mixup or a left/right mixup. This means that it’s crucial that you develop perfect meaty normal and throw timing, and learn to gauge when the opponent is using quick-rise, back-rise, or no recovery.

The main situations where Ryu can threaten his oki are:

-off a forward throw
-off HP DP
-off HK Tatsu
-off sweep

Here are some simple things I’ve been doing with some success in ranked so far (obviously it’s early days yet).

Forward Throw: Immediate dash forward followed by Axe Kick if they don’t quick-rise. Immediate Axe Kick catches quick-rise for one hit, no follow-up. Immediate Solar Plexus Strike will hit meaty on their quick-rise, allowing for cr.MP xx HP Hadouken link. Slight step forward followed by cr.MP xx HP Hadouken hits meaty and is relatively safe on block.

HP DP: Immediate dash forward allows you to time meaty throw or meaty st.MP on their quick-rise, which can then link into cr.MP xx HP Hadouken. Immediate Solar Plexus Strike hits meaty on their quick-rise, and can link into cr.MP (too far for any follow-up).

HK Tatsu: This is one of the trickier oki setups for the opponent. Your HK Tatsu will corpse hop them on the last rotation, meaning that their back-rise will actually move towards you, rather than away from you. This means that your meaty Axe Kick covers every wakeup option they have short of DPing (and is safe if they block).

Sweep: Sweep gives you a decent amount of time to dash forward and set up the meaty Axe Kick or st.MP.

It’s worth noting that I haven’t really found any effective ways to follow a back-rise on wakeup (unless you knocked them down with HK Tatsu). If you know they’re going to back rise after a HP DP or Forward Throw, you can throw an immediate HP Hadouken and make sure they block it (it’s too close for them to jump over it). If anyone finds a better option, let me know!

In terms of what to do with your meaty normals, I think there are two main options:

Axe Kick > st.LK xx HP Shoryuken: This is the default option for me as it’s safe on block, easy to confirm, and is quite forgiving (it often catches backdashes or jumps if you’ve mistimed your meaty). You can also easily cancel the HP Shoryuken into Super for massive damage.

st.MP > cr.MP xx HP Hadouken: This is the default confirm off of st.MP. The reason I don’t go into cr.HP xx HP Shoryuken is that on counter hit the st.MP will have more pushback, making the cr.HP whiff sometimes. Given that counter hitting is the point of doing meaties, this doesn’t seem wise. You could use st.MP > cr.MP xx HK Tatsu, but that would require you confirming that they are standing during the meaty, which is tricky. This can also be confirmed into Super.

Anyone found anything else on Ryu’s oki?

[ArtVandelay]

HK Tatsu: This is one of the trickier oki setups for the opponent. Your HK Tatsu will corpse hop them on the last rotation, meaning that their back-rise will actually move towards you, rather than away from you. This means that your meaty Axe Kick covers every wakeup option they have short of DPing (and is safe if they block).

Thanks a lot for this find.
I already checked back rise as unpunishable from my list.

[electronbabies]

I combo into tatsu if I’m afraid of s.MP being too far. You can link sweep on counter hit too. Does anyone have some decent denjin charge fireball setups??? I can’t find anything except cc sweep and that’s risky due to reversals.

[FGC_Oni]

Yea, I’m fairly amateur at this game so far but one thing I’ve noticed is that Ryu keeps a very strong Oki position if he scores a knockdown. A lot of opponents have trouble guessing if I’m gonna DP, Throw, or Block a wake-up attack. I need to mess around with those meaty set-ups.

[MourningIIstar]

Yea, I’m fairly amateur at this game so far but one thing I’ve noticed is that Ryu keeps a very strong Oki position if he scores a knockdown. A lot of opponents have trouble guessing if I’m gonna DP, Throw, or Block a wake-up attack. I need to mess around with those meaty set-ups.

I definitely win most of my games by just being aggressive and constantly being in the dominant position.

[Akire]

First of all, thanks to share this with us.

For axe kick, it prevent someone to jump also but it’s 0 on block, recovery is bigger also.

Combos on it is less good than a simple mp. I have to test against a v reversal to see if it’s safe. I think Zangief can v-skill and punish easy also.

Maybe a mp is safer ?

[PLAYING_TO_W1N]

Great post

[BraboChoke]

First of all, thanks to share this with us.

For axe kick, it prevent someone to jump also but it’s 0 on block, recovery is bigger also.

Combos on it is less good than a simple mp. I have to test against a v reversal to see if it’s safe. I think Zangief can v-skill and punish easy also.

Maybe a mp is safer ?

Ive always had more luck with the axe kick.

My timing is out for the mp

[FGC_Oni]

What works for tick throw set-ups? I’ve been seeing relative success in matches using Cr. LP into throw. Some people tech, other’s don’t. What other normals can Ryu tick throw out of? I haven’t really messed around with using any other normals for tick throws. I know they’re easy to see coming in this game but it works maybe 80% of the time for me.

[MuayGio]

First of all, thanks to share this with us.

For axe kick, it prevent someone to jump also but it’s 0 on block, recovery is bigger also.

Combos on it is less good than a simple mp. I have to test against a v reversal to see if it’s safe. I think Zangief can v-skill and punish easy also.

Maybe a mp is safer ?

st.MP leads into better damage with the St.MP, cr.HP xx DP combo, but first of all you need to confirm off just one hit, because cr.HP is unsafe. Axe Kick let’s you confirm off two hits which is considerably easier. Secondly, against some characters, St.MP done meaty will push the opponent out on counter hit enough that cr.HP won’t link. If this is the case, the damage potential is reduced dramatically.

It’s kind of a judgment call. At this stage I would say Axe Kick is more reliable and more forgiving, but I think in certain situations st. MP might be better.

It’s an interesting point about gief v-skill, I would have to test that!

[MuayGio]

What works for tick throw set-ups? I’ve been seeing relative success in matches using Cr. LP into throw. Some people tech, other’s don’t. What other normals can Ryu tick throw out of? I haven’t really messed around with using any other normals for tick throws. I know they’re easy to see coming in this game but it works maybe 80% of the time for me.

I think st. LP and st. LK are best for tick throws although cr.LP probably works fine too. st. LK is particularly good because it has almost no pushback. Off a crossup jump short you can go straight into LK and then throw without walking forward at all, which is great. Just remember that it’s -2 on block so throw immediately!

[TerribleMatt]

ok so after MK tatsu you can dash forward into st mp which will beat out any recovery and any wake-up normal. This gives maximum corner push and you can confirm on reaction (although it is very hard). I think it might be worth practicing this as it leads into a lot of damage and you can confirm into any tatsu or shoryuken regardless of distance or whether or not they are crouching. Remember MK tatsu leads to the same setup again so I think it can be pretty dangerous. The other advantage of MK tatsu is you have time to use the overhead if they do normal recovery or no recovery (or back recovery in the corner).

[ArtVandelay]

ok so after MK tatsu you can dash forward into st mp which will beat out any recovery and any wake-up normal. This gives maximum corner push and you can confirm on reaction (although it is very hard). I think it might be worth practicing this as it leads into a lot of damage and you can confirm into any tatsu or shoryuken regardless of distance or whether or not they are crouching. Remember MK tatsu leads to the same setup again so I think it can be pretty dangerous. The other advantage of MK tatsu is you have time to use the overhead if they do normal recovery or no recovery (or back recovery in the corner).

I tried to replicate that and it actually worked.
Problem is the link is airtight so this is gonna take some practice. Thank you for sharing.

[Mikey996]

L Tatsu, double dash, immediate mp is meaty against normal quickrise, need to delay it slightly to hit back quickrise though so might not be as good as the other options

[fischbs]

Meaty b+hk is one of his best meaties. It’s +7 on the last active frame (+3 on block).

[larcat]

Any suggestions on how to time it correctly? I some times get thrown when I think I’ve got it.

Meaty b+hk is one of his best meaties. It’s +7 on the last active frame (+3 on block).

[MuayGio]

Any suggestions on how to time it correctly? I some times get thrown when I think I’ve got it.

Meaty b+hk is one of his best meaties. It’s +7 on the last active frame (+3 on block).

The best way is probably just practice. It’s like a link, you just need to “feel” the timing. Fortunately, SFV’s training room is really good for this. Just program the dummy to automatically do a reversal cr.LP on wake-up (get a character like Karin with a 3f cr.LP) and then practice sweeping them then going for the Axe Kick meaty!

[larcat]

Word, thanks.

Training room really is gorgeous in this game in comparison to IV.

Any suggestions on how to time it correctly? I some times get thrown when I think I’ve got it.

Meaty b+hk is one of his best meaties. It’s +7 on the last active frame (+3 on block).

The best way is probably just practice. It’s like a link, you just need to “feel” the timing. Fortunately, SFV’s training room is really good for this. Just program the dummy to automatically do a reversal cr.LP on wake-up (get a character like Karin with a 3f cr.LP) and then practice sweeping them then going for the Axe Kick meaty!

[ZOMBIEGUTS_TZA]

I made a short video showing a bit of an altered take on the forward throw set up in the original post.

[Nu-Skoool]

True meaty setups after quick rise

Mp DP: Dash in - true meaty.
Lk tatsu: whiff s.hk, slight delay - true meaty
Mk tatsu: slight step forward - true meaty
Ex fireball: dash in x2 - true meaty
Jodan Sanrengeki: dash, slight delay -true meaty

If you can NOT combo cr.mp into another cr.mp/s.mp or s.mp into sweep, your setup is not a true meaty, only a frame trap setup.

Why do true meaty setups matter? They matter against characters with 3 frame crouch/stand jabs. Such as Cammy, Chun, Karin, Laura, Mika, Ryu, Vega (no claw stance), and Necalli. These characters can effectively stop s.mp pressure due to it being +1 on block. Lights will simply trade after s.mp. This leaves Ryu with the only options of pressuring with lights and cr.mp or taking a slight step back and whiff punishing. None of his lights or cr.mp naturally combo’s (without counter hit/meaty) into his stronger buttons. However if meaty, cr.mp WILL combo into his stronger buttons, and s.mp will be left at +3 at best/+2 at worst on block and will shut down mashed jabs.