Anyone tested if we get anything off a successful v-reversal?
I haven’t found anything substantial outside of dash up cr.mp or meaty fireball.
Been testing LK tatsu as a finisher, this might be my go to move from now on if I can land it. If they do a quick rise you get a cross up when you immediately forward jump. Everybody probably knows that already. But if they do the back roll you can empty jump into a cr. LK that will beat a reversal throw tech. To be honest I found it extremely hard to time a empty cr. LK against a reversal throw tech. I found st. jab to be easier but then you give up the ability to catch them standing. But I’ll probably just stick with cr. LK because I don’t think people are going to throw tech as soon as possible. Especially when they see someone jumping in on them.
If they wake up with a 4f light attack, it will beat the empty jump normal(even st. LP). But again I really don’t think people are going to wake up with a jab when they see someone jumping in on them. If they start to reacting to this by blocking low, you can just delay it a few frames and a jump in will hit them after a back roll. Of course characters with fast reversals can blow this up easily if back roll into a DP so you always gotta be careful about using it like every other set up I guess.
Had same problems with empty jumps. I’ll use this though! Only other one I’ve been using is kind of Gimmicky - neutral jump on WU into cr.lk. Most people block high.
Unfortunately Ryu has no natural safejumps outside V trigger canceled sweep where the opponent back rolls and CC s.fp on non-quick rise. I’ve gone through just about every KD Ryu can generate and those are the only two and I’ve gone through every wakeup timing, Vcancel, crush counter, Vcancel crush counters, everything. Each one down to the frame, and nothing.
Right now I’m focusing on finding meaty setups against characters with 3 frame jabs on quick rise, so I can pressure with s.mp freely. So far for meaty setups I use;
Mp Dp: dash, s.mp <-true meaty
Lk tatsu: dashx2 - not a true meaty, or dash whiff s.mp for meaty throw
Mk tatsu: dash, s.mp - not true meaty, or whiff s.mp for meaty throw
Ex fb: dash x2, s.mp <-true meaty
Target Comboxx Vtrigger, tatsu juggle
Lk tatsu: dashx2, s.mp <- true meaty
Mk tatsu: dash, s.mp <- true meaty
If you crush counter with fp and finish the target combo, they’ll juggle higher giving Ryu more frame advantage which eliminates the natural meaty setup. However note that Ryu can simply opt not to V-trigger cancel and instead throw a meaty jab fireball, which can be hit confirmed into super. He also gets a guaranteed guard break ex denjin setup off a V-trigger canceled TC.
Corner specific
Ex tatsu: whiff s.mk, s.mp <-true meaty
Ex DP: whiff s.jab, s.mp<-true meaty
Crush Counter
Sweep: mp fireball whiff, dash, s.mp <-true meaty
Vtrigger canceled Sweep: f+fp, f+mp, s.mp <- true meaty. Conversely Ryu can backdash, then charge an ex denjin hado, which is about 99% guaranteed to guard break. I say this because I’m certain a few reversal supers like Chuns and perhaps Kens ex DP may beat it.
Most of these setups you can react to backroll with meaty s.mk or s.fp, and link into s.lkxx lk/mk/ex tatsu/fireball to maintain some pressure and damage (167-227). Against the portion of the cast with 4 frame jabs, I go for max damage everytime since they can’t slip jabs between s.mp strings. So as long as Ryu is +1 he has frame advantage to do whatever.
Meaty throw means your connecting on the last possible frame of the throw, which is the 6th frame (1st active frame occurs on the 5th).
What I have realized is that on your opponents first vulnerable frame during wakeup, they are still invincible to throws.
For example after ex fireball, dashx2, on a quick rising opponent, Ryu can do a meaty s.mp that hits on the second active frame causing it to be +7 on hit (I know this because cr.rh links but s.mk [8 startup frames] doesn’t). Due to s.mps 5 start up frames and connecting on the 2nd active, this would be the 6th total frame of the move. Throws also have 5 frames of startup with 2 active. With this setup both moves would connect on the 6th frame, throws last active frame. However throw will whiff in this instance.
To further illustrate this, set the training dummy to normal recovery, do a fierce DP, dash in then immediately try to grab. It will whiff. However if Ryu attempts a s.mp it will hit on the first active frame and will not link into cr.rh.
I believe there must be at least 2 frames on wakeup where you cannot be throw but are still vulnerable to strikes. If this is true I assume that means there’s a one frame window to throw a 3 frame jab. To counter this I created setups that will allow the throw to connect at the earliest possible frames to prevent 3 frame jabs from stopping it, thus meaty throw.
@Nu-Skoool thanks for that, i’ll run some set ups in training mode, i kind of know what you mean just from memory of whiffing throws on peoples wake up!
I saw this info in reddit, but it might help here.
After a cr.hk crush counter, whiff a st.hk tehn nj. hk is a safe jump against 4 frames reversals, Even Ryu mp srk gets blocked with this set up
Makes sense. Ryu gets 70 frames of advantage on a CC sweep. S.hk is 29 frames and jump is 41.
You could also do dashx3, s.mk too. With the buffer window this wouldn’t be too difficult and not only would you be in a little bit better positioning you also get a little corner carry.
What’s nice about this set up is that it continually loops into itself if you hit confirm with cr. LK, cr. LP, LK tatsu as long as people keep doing back roll and block high. Most players in my experience like to back roll so that’s actually the main reason why I started looking into this. When or if they finally start blocking low, delaying your jump by a few frames can net full jump in combos(st. MP > cr. HP will connect depending on the range). As for invincible reversals. You can air tatsu to make them whiff and score crush counter combos as long as the move is more vertical like Ryu’s DP instead of horizontal like Mika’s EX butt splash.
The only drawback is that it’s very hard to react to what kind of wake up they used. I set the dummy to random and I couldn’t do it consistently. Maybe you or others can but I don’t think I can. So when I try this, it will be more of a read than a reaction. If I see that my opponent like to back roll all the time. This set up could be pretty useful against them.
By the time you visually confirm that they used back roll or quick rise, you probably wasted around 20 frames of time, don’t think that’s a viable option and you better read their habits when you choose your ender and okizeme afterwards.
That’s why I said that it’s basically a read. If I notice that my opponent likes to back roll then I’ll use it against them. With enough right guesses you can score a lot of damage and stun quickly. But like I said the situation isn’t a given and it can get you blown up. But I’m willing to take that risk sometimes, I don’t always want to play safe.
Ryu’s medium DP is safe-jumpable in this game because it’s 4 frames. EX DP probably still blows up safe jumps, though.
After a crush counter sweep canceled into v trigger, against Ken there is a distance where if you charge fireball and Ken ex DPS, only the first hit of the dp hits and you can block the second shoryureppa.
Besides his damage, which is astronomical already, these post knockdown follow ups made him even better.