yeah soon after i posted i was thinking it could be that. pretty cool, i should try and figure out how to do it on command!
thanks a lot, i’ll give it a try!
Who’s the man? Who’s the man???
Nohoho!!! Built-in dragon punch and button-release fireball for us to learn. I won’t reproduce anything as this forum is English-speaking, thus people can read his blog directly and he gets the page visits he deserves.
Very nice. Thanks for the links oldschool_BR. As usual, nohoho is a treasure trove of high level strats. Very interesting concepts in both articles. The NE fireball sounds a little useful, but the safe jump-Shoryuken sounds like a really great strategy though. It beats a lot of wakeup reversals and is foolproof in terms of mixups that could follow, tick throws, Overheads, etc. Thanks to nohoho. = J
In [media=youtube]xOQQCcJOyNk"[/media],* ShootingD seems to seek a particular position against Dhalsim. Can anyone please enlighten me of what advantages he wants to stablish or what Dhalsim advantages he wants to minimize? I have always tried to rush him down (to the extend Dhalsim allows you, of course), and his approach is quite different.
*tyvm, NH2
I think he was trying to keep Dhalsim at over 3/4 range to full screen range. Just to prevent any Drills or Slides on reaction to Hadokens IMHO so he can build meter. That’s why he did so many jump back Tatsus to build meter cuz that Dhalsim player was constantly in his face. IDK tho, that was a very interesting style for Dhalsim, half rush down, have keep away, never more than 3/4 screen away. He certainly did very well, but ShootingD is just an exceptional Ryu player, with most of his wins coming from clutch moments after landing the Super, followed up by mixups. He needed some psychic Shoryukens IMO tho. ; J Excellent match vs that Claw player too.
are there any normals besides crouching medium punch that are of any use against dhalsim? Definitely a very hard match for me.
Yeah your low short should beat his low punches if he’s trying to hit you with those, and of course jumping roundhouse from it’s max range is decent, but he slide if you do it too soon.
Ryu frame data
By testing with Kawaks, it looks like T.Akiba’s frame data is not accurate: it gives one extra start-up frame for every normal attack. This is so for normals, only: SRK having 4 start-up frames is correct. I have also realized some normal moves give extra recovery. It looks like the character has recovered, Ryu gets the corresponding standing or crouching hitboxes, but he will not move nor defend himself. I suppose T.Akiba did not notice this. For all moves here which have “extra recovery” listed, just add 1 frame to the recovery to obtain the correct de facto number of recovery frames. However, know that even then you can not immediately attack after a normal (must wait 1 frame) and special attacks are disabled for that frame.
T.Akiba is still the man: he has obtained his data without computer tools. I did not test hadouken, but I suppose his data is correct about the move. I have also not tested the aerial moves, it would take too much time for now. There is one extra information he and I could not provide, which is related to Ryu’s fierce hadouken: it will have a (horizontally) larger hitbox from the moment the projectile animation gets less fancy untill a certain distance. I could not check the number of frames it takes for the hitbox to shrink to the size of the other strength projectiles.
Close punches
2 - 4 - 5
3 - 2 - 17
3 - 2 - 6 - 23 (the second active part cannot be comboed into from the first part)
Close kicks
5 - 6 - 4
3 - 6 - 8 (extra recovery)
7 - 8 - 4 - 11
Far standing punches
2 - 4 - 4 (extra recovery)
3 - 4 - 6 (extra recovery)
5 - 6 - 22 (extra recovery)
Far standing kicks
4 - 8 - 5
7 - 8 - 7
2 - 4 - 8 - 17 (the second active part cannot be comboed into from the first part)
Crouching punches
2 - 4 - 4 (extra recovery)
3 - 4 - 7 (extra recovery)
3 - 3 - 8 - 22 (extra recovery)
Crouching kicks
3 - 4 - 4 (extra recovery)
3 - 6 - 8 (extra recovery)
3 - 6 - 25
Overhead (swing) punch (f+strong)
16 - 2 - 3 - 10
rush punch (plexus) punch (f+fierce)
10 - 1 - 2 - 12
Shoryuken (dragon punch)
4 - 4 - 2 - 8 - 21 - 5
4 - 4 - 2 - 12 - 28 - 5
4 - 4 - 2 - 16 - 35 - 5
Chart: lime green means invulnerable start-up, magenta means invulnerable active part, purple means vulnerable grounded active part, red means ordinary active part and sienna means landing recovery.
Ryu cannot use a normal or special attack right after a hadouken or shoryuken.
Tatsumaki Senpuu Kiaku (tatsu, hurricane kick)
4 - 7 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 15 - 0
4 - 7 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 15 - 0
4 - 7 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 15 - 0
Dark red means backwards active part. Ryu can only jump or block right after a tatsu. The next frame, he can not throw (yelds the corresponding normal if you try it).
Notes
Again, “extra recovery” means the first frame after the basic recovery is useless in the sense the character stays there and does not do anything.
At the first recovery frame, the character can throw or jump. This happens one frame later for the “extra recovery” normal moves.
**
About super**
Super hits again after 10 frames of hit-freeze. On hit, it takes 11 frames to recover from Ryu’s super. The blockstun, however, is the same of a fierce or roundhouse.
Just because of played the game a few times this year…
One thing I don’t ever see posted for ryu, shotos or well any character for that matter is the dizzy moves do. Yes there is randomness. But its pretty easy to count during the match actually. Anyway I guess just in case anyone cares… Note that shotos(so ryus goes for kens yadda yadda) all have the same not including specific multi hit moves. So I wont count them. So for ryus jump mp say assume old.
From highest to lowest
Jump normals dizzy
-neutral jump hk, then hp
-neutral jump mp
-diagonal jump mp/mk
-diagonal jump hp
-diagonal jump hk
-everything else.
Ground normals
-close stand hk
-duck mp/mk, close stand mp/mk stand hp/hk/mp/(mk I forget… it might be here),duck hk*
-close stand hp, duck hp
-everything else
Blue fireballs DO do more stun then red fireballs. Hurricane kick, and DP are hard to get accurate data on because they knock down. Which on that subject even if red fireball and blue fireball did the same amount of stun its moot because note that each time you are knocked down, the move that knocks you down you basically gotta take away half its dizzy from. Which is why its so hard to dizzy if red fireball knocks down. And above sweep does do a fair amount of stun, BUT ONLY if it dizzys. If the opponent is not dizzed from it you have to take away a lot of its stun value. Same obviously goes for DP and hurricane kick.
Also note that when you do the same move over and over again it generally tends to do less dizzy. So better to switch off of say mediums if you want to dizzy the fastest.
So saying this its actually pretty easy to know when you are going to dizzy and when you are not going to. Since jump mk does more stun then hk. If your jump mk can cross up its almost always better to use it, as say sweep to jump hk, duck mk, fireball. Has very low chance of dizzy. But if you do sweep, jump mk, duck mk, fireball. You basically have to be unlucky for it not to dizzy. And of course these values get lower if you were to do a stand hp, instead of medium or a red fireball instead of blue…
Another easy way to test is neutral jump hk,hp, or mp, then duck mk, to fireball. Should instantly dizzy every character in the game almost everytime. But again if you do hp, or red fireballs. The chance of dizzy goes down.
And of course some characters dizzy easier then others. Its very possible to dizzy vega and sim just with a neutral jump attack to a medium, or another how stun normal. No fireball needed whatever.
And yea im not sure on all of the newer moves say ryus new punchs. But in general they seem to do less. Most realistic example is the whole geif thing. When ever you land a sweep vs geif you jump in mp. It beats lariaght for both new and old ryu. But for old ryu the combo should dizzy almost everytime. But new ryu not so…
Oh well… just bored and no one seems to ever put up the list of what does what dizzy. So shrug… Lots of other example… but yea…
Keep the stuff coming, dude. I did not know about these differences between jumping attack stun properties. However, I am not sure knocking down allows the enemy to recover from stun: it may be more due to SRKs and red hadoukens not doing enough stun and people often blocking correctly as they wake up (often it is just a meaty hadouken). If I recall correctly, Snake Eyes has also stated that blocking does not really make you recover from stun damage: it just prevents it from increasing.
The jumping mp is really nice against Gief. But it can be avoided by crouching, so it is nice to be aware of that, and keep fierce in mind when they wise up.
well i never said anyhting about blocking so I have nothing to add to it. .But when you get knocked down you get back about half of whatever the last move you got hit by. Again its really easy to test with knock down stuff. If it could have dizzyed it would have. But if you get back up from it, your gonna have to add what you lost for it to dizzy.
Also its somewhat misleading to say you can just duck it. Because you do it in a situation where the lariat is a reversal anyway, so jump mp can not truely be ducked because of the whole fuzzy sorta stance/guard ish situation that occurs.
Well, I meant that if Ryu jumps in on Zangief as he gets up, Zangief will often use the lariat as a reversal. But after he gets a couple of 3/4-hit combos or a combo into super he soon enough realizes it is not a good idea to reversal lariat every time when getting up, which is when he will either just stand and block or crouch then either SPD (hard) or do the face crush hold (not as hard).
Chris Doyle has mentioned that dizzy damage is higher in X, when people were discussing which version to use for the SOB quals.
So you mean a move that knocks down does full dizzy damage if it will dizzy and just half if it will not?
Crossup J.Rh, cr.mp, cr.mk, fireball is almost a guaranteed stun. You can’t land it on everyone though.
i would be alot happier if zangief was taken out of sf
I’m having a hard time with the Blanka match up, what strategy should I try take into this game? I know to punish balls with jab, havnt tried c.short on his slides if that works? Zone and anti air him accordingly but the main trouble I am having is crossing him up, I find it harder as his up ball is always catching me.
Don’t cross him up 'cause the vertical ball hits on the first frame and if they piano it’ll come out with reversal timing (or near enough). Ryu’s cr.MP works well against Blanka and if he does the electricity, I believe you can sweep it with the tip of your cr.HK. The CPU Ryu uses rapid c.short against low attacks but I don’t see many real people using it.
Cr Strong works on Blanka’s slides. And yeah, don’t bother crossing up cuz that’s just a free knockdown for Blanka using his reversal Up Ball. For meaty setups, I do cr Strong from max range into Shoryuken/throw/Tatsu mixups and they work well for me.
hello big beards, I have returned:china:
it is currently in wrighting a new max ryu strat. After the many long days like bible man I am erect and have reincarnate. prepare your pampers. :party:
need help with chun li. it seems like all she has to do is build meter, and store the super to win the match. if you press a button, you eat the super, if you dont you get thrown to death. after starting out by playing hdr, i can see why she got nerfed the way she did. throws do too much damage, and a super followed up with upkicks is worse than taking rogs super full on. i also have a hard time reverseing throws. it almost seems like i am facing the wrong way after a crossup to counter throw. i just hear a whiffed move as im getting thrown. even though i am sure she is on the ground and throwable.
The only thing that needed nerfing with chun is her stupid fucken hitbox, because it doesn’t match her sprite on a lot of her normals, bitch has 1 leg if you go by her hitbox.
Sounds like you just have reversal timing issues, nothing nobody can help you with, just practice.