Not exactly. Actually, s.fierce xx jab SRK will only miss if you try it against Chun or Cammy* after a crossup j.rh,** and if they are crouching. Or against standing Dee Jay, but any fierce into SRK will whiff against him that way. In all other situations, the combo with s.fierce will always connect if it also would with c.fierce. If you start the combo in crouching position (c.fierce) you can not cancel the normal into a special attack as fast/early as you can if you are standing.*** Thus, the enemy is pushed back a little bit further and the probability of whiffing subsequent attacks increases.
*Cammy is a bit tricky to crossup if she ducks, gotta hit the roundhouse kick kind of early.
**Forward jumping attack sometimes allows one to connect the combo, but often also puts Chun and Cammy into the same hitstun animation such that s.fierce whiffs after Ryu lands.
***Check the extra note (outro).
Extra note: I updated the precious post because of DJ. If he is in standing position, a SRK will whiff against him after a standing or crouching fierce punch. He can also not be hit by the c.str c.str combos, as I said in a previous message.
Extra note (outro): from NKI’s translation of T. Akiba’s Street Fighter 2 Frame Data I could understand why st.fierce cancels faster than cr.fierce: it has one extra attacking frame. In more detail: Ryu close standing fierce punch has 4 startup frames, followed by cancellable 2 attacking frames, then 6 more attacking frames (the ones that can be used as anti-air) and 23 recovery frames. The crouching version has the same startup (4, but with different art and, most certainly, with very different defensive hit boxes),* then 3 and then 8 attaching frames, followed by 22 frames so that Ryu recovers. I believe when one cancels a hitting attack, he or she must wait for the pause frames that one gets when an attack lands (hit freeze) plus the frames of the portion of the attack move that can be canceled. Thus, using a st.fierce allows one to cancel into a special attack one frame before, comparison to cr.fierce.
Yeah, so I have a good sense of how to space and zoning so I’ve been trying to pick up Ryu of late. I’ve found him to be an easier character to use. My problem is I can’t walk-up shoryu with more than about 80% consistency, and thats one of the main things that discouraged me from using Ken. How important of a part of Ryu’s gameplay is walk-up shoryu? Do I have to be able to do it in order to have a good Ryu? I was just practicing it a little while ago for the better part of an hour, and I still can’t do it more than around 80% of the time. Any and all advice will be greatly appreciated.
The only thing I could notice is that one must move from forward to down as soon as possible. A small delay between these two positions will cause Ryu to perform a hadouken or a punch instead. I noticed no difference between reaching :r: after :df: or not: I get the SRK anyway. My guess is the lack of consistency is due to the random SRK input window in ST (8 to 15 frames) and some delay between :r: and :d:. Both issues can get solved by faster execution.
I will leave the strategy part of your doubts to the ones that have access to really high level competition.
Hey guys, having some trouble with Chun in this game(who would have guessed). Here are my main problems
Her jump arc is really annoying. On top of that. her jumping forward(?) beats everything! I hate her
Her stupid walk in ticks are crazy. Walk up st.strong(?) like 4 times, and then she throws. I can tech the throw fine but when it comes to trying to reversal srk out I fail. My reversal srk timing is pretty good FYI. I just have trouble with that aspect of her game
Footsies. I like to use cr.forward, but her cr.forward(?) beats a lot of ryu’s low pokes. I don’t like doing standalone hadokens midscreen, I prefer to cancel them off something. What would be the best moves to get in on her?
The only counter to Chun’s uber-jump+MK hit box is to DP that shit. Get your spacing right, get your zones and DP timing down, apply some variable fireball pressure, and predict that biatch! :annoy:
If you’re repeatedly getting tick thrown, you do need to work on reversal timing. But teching is much, much safer for many reasons. Taking the easy way out and trying to reverse out each time is not the correct strategy. Instead ask yourself: “Why am I in the situation where she’s tick rushing me down in the first place?”
On footsies: You cannot really play footsies with Chun, her cr.MK and other normals are too good (usually). The most you can really do is a cr.MK poke to stop her from getting too close. Mix that up with the red fireball at close range too – but watch out for the jump straight up roundhouse trick – Nuki used that a lot against Daigo in this vid from Evo2k3.
Well, you have to fb from outside footsie range, that’s how you play most of the matchup right there. Whilst Ryu is weaker in the footsies, he has a better fireball than Chun’s. He has a stronger and faster fireball game, so it’s to his advantage to apply pressure using the fb’s. Also, since Chun’s fireball isn’t full-screen, you can occasionally try a few air-HK’s and dp’s at max distance, to build meter quickly. If you can get super before she does, you can rush in to mid and close range and apply more pressure. If the opposite happens, you have to go defense mode – predict when she’ll release the super and maybe air HK over (or just block).
Offense-wise, cross-up HK after knockdown is vital. Use it when you’re too close to do a safe jump.
Uh, yeah, what else. Study that Daigo vid multiple times, notice what Daigo does to counter Chun, etc. Gotoh vs Otochun (vid) is another good example.
Thanks very much BoggleMinds for the information, I’ll apply this next time I’m playing my friend who has a decent Chun. I’ll keep studying those vids in the meantime!
Most the players are Japanese, and most the footage is from Japanese Tournaments.
I wanted to get this out before the release of STHD.
My HTML skills are pretty weak, so the formatting is still rough.
This is a collection of links that I have had for some time, and I have found personally useful in improving my game.
The BEST way I have found to use these links, is to reference the appropriate ones AFTER I get my butt kicked by a particular character.
That way I’m hungry to pick up specific things that will help me in that matchup.
Can someone please teach me the basics of Ryu’s combos and cross up combos?
I know the easy ones like lp lp, crouching lk, lk, etc and the fireball two in one, and I know how to cross up with his mk. I"d like to know his TOD and special tricks also.
You asked for a lot so you’re going to get people telling you to read the wiki and the forum But one thing I’ll say is that the conventional wisdom is that j.roundhouse is his best crossup, not mk. Ken’s is mk.
You only need to know a handful and its oldschool.
Fierce punch into dragon.
Jump in Fierce kick, crouching medium kick, fireball.
Jump in Fierce Kick, crouching fierce kick (easy 2 hit, big damage and a knock down)
Jump in Fierce Punch, standing fierce punch fireball/dragon.
Forward medium punch, crouching fierce kick, 3 hit, good to use on fallen opponents, a beware good players.
Ryu’s all about keeping opponent away, or cornering them and getting them with fireball dragon keep outs.
Problem with ryu is so many people know the matchup unless you’re a really good player who plays tight many people know what do vs him.
Don’t forget to charge up his super with mini air hurricanes when the game is slow.
His super is the most useful in the game, with the exception of Boxer (who lets face it is a broken character:)
I couldn’t find the ryu thread when I made this post. And thanks for the general tips- some of which I’d for gotten a bit about. Others, like fireball spamming, I’ve been doing since I was like, ten, when I couldn’t do physicals very well.
And I’ve seen daigo’s ryu and ken before. Frickin’ amazing. Still, should check him out again.
this may help, but its only my experience of ryu vs. deejay.
other things:
you have to zone him, no seriously, ZONE him: out fireball him, and if he ever gets close (like with an empty jump) you can push him back well with c.hk xx hadouken.
when you get super you can catch him with empty gut punch --> super if he maxes out too much.
on my joystick sometimes when i go for a fierce shoryuken it comes out a cr. fierce punch cancelled (is this the right term?) into a hadouken. (the punch into the hadouken comes out REALLY fast.) i like this a whole lot but really can’t do this without it accidently happening. do i just do a cr. fierce punch really fast into a hadouken? it’s strange because it happens only when i hit fierce punch ONCE (or at least i think i only hit it once)
the game registers an input when you press a button, and also when you release a button. it only works for special and super moves, but you can for example press and hold fierce, do a qcf and release the punch button as you complete the motion to do a fireball. this is called “negative edge”, and makes some combos/reversals easier to perform.
so what’s likely happening is that you’re inputting the motion slightly wrong (perhaps forward, down, forward) and pressing punch as you hit down, and releasing it as you get to forward, thus causing the fireball.
or you could be mashing, or have a dodgy joystick, lol =)
try doing it as you normally would, but press and hold fierce and see if it still happens.
Gotoh vs Otochun (
But one thing I’ll say is that the conventional wisdom is that j.roundhouse is his best crossup, not mk. Ken’s is mk.