It is really inspiring that Ryu is still fighting to find his answers even though his cr.mk got amputated in this game.
Seriously though, I’m having huge problems atm. I’m really stubborn on making as much of 3s Ryu’s bullshit work in this game despite 90% of the cast’s low strong into BnB completely blowing me up.
Going away from e.ryu this is something i have to unlearn… again and its been a learning process in pain. We are 3 friends who’s been playing sets everyday after work at my house and esp playing my Chun friend who has the reactions to punish the block string on reaction has left me… wondering what sets between Ken & Ryu is going to be like at the high levels.
Ken with v-trigger can punish the string on reaction for 200+ dmg without meter after v-trigger activation same goes for Gief and i doubt someone of the calibur of Momochi wont be able to do this consistantly, as you dont need to reversal it with Ken at certain ranges making it very reactable.
Again i think the block part is fine, its the same as SF4 so thats in line with what shoud be expected (i think its whats going to put the nail in the coffin of ryu at high levels) but the part about it being punishable at maximum range on HIT… that has to be fixed and i cant be the only who thinks that.
I think before Ryus cr.mk was more of a “I don’t want you in this space” move but now that space where cr.mk reaches is already inside the danger/interaction zone. It’s almost better to opt for either a st.mp counter hit or a st.fierce since they both hit crouchers and have better follow up options.
I said before the game even hit, the idea it seems is to put two characters in a risky situation then see who picks the right options.
i’m just copy pasting everything MDZ_Jimmy does on Twitch.
-Poke with st.mk, cr. mp and Hadoukens
-use decent walk speed/fast dash for St.mp frame trap/hit confirms into everything, either cr. fierce into fierce shoryu or cr.mk into hadouken depending on the distance.
-cr.jab tick throws and max distance overheads for dudes who block low.
-Sweep into V-Trigger(whether it hits or not you’re safe).
-Mp DP for anti-airs, or st.jab especially for cross-up defense, dash under for reset st.mp, cr.HP, HP shoryu hit confirm.
-Throw Hadoukens from mid-to-close range, mix up speeds and throw in fake jabs/lks to fake out jump-ins for AAs.
-Save meter for easy hit confirm into CA for opponents who don’t threaten me, otherwise save it for fast EX fireballs.
-Back + HK on wake-up for dudes who like to hit buttons, link into cr. lk to tatsu to push in corner or shoryu if they’re already there.
-Bait out reversals, St.HK CC, st.mp, cr.hp, fierce shoryu punish.
-Jumping tatsu for a pretty safe approach to cover distance(either they get hit or I’m in your face relatively safe to hit buttons).
-Parry obvious one hit approaches(cammy spinning knuckle, Karin skipping overhead, nash moonsault, r.mika dropkick), punish, make them think twice about that shit
-When pressuring, there’s a GootecksShimmy with the Solar Plexus. Just when they think you’re done pressing buttons and backing up, you hit em with the solar plexus at max range
Agreed, it’s completely ridiculous. It’s like if you put Bison in the game, but made his walkspeed the worst in the game, or put in Karin and took away her rekkas, or put in Vega, but made him a motion character. Capcom, please fix.
ya’ll really need to let cr.mk go
I’d sooner die, Dante avatar man.
The best thing about SF4 was E.Ryu getting the same animation of 3s Ryu’s cr.MK. Now Haunts and Combofiend are having a devil’s threesome with my future wife that I haven’t met yet while counting the money they got from me buying this game and Ryu still has no Joudan Kick or his real cr.MK.
I recognize this is just sour grapes from me, but I will never let it go.
You can sweep after CH s.MP as well. I catch a lot of people with s.MP, s.MP (CH), sweep when I’m trying to see if they mash or not
Yeah you really have to pay attention to the counter hit message if your throwing out that second st.mp or using the shimmy.
St.mp , cr.mk xx hadou is a good beginner string for people having trouble , doubles as a combo block string, adding in an EX fireball gives you the KD and a touch more damage.
OK dude, sorry but this is the worst kind of “CAPCOM PLS FIX” whining in the FGC right now.
It’s already been discussed that cr.MK is not unsafe on hit. Nor is cr.MK xx Hadouken unsafe on hit. On block, cr.MK xx Hadouken is not a true blockstring, and cr.MK xx Hadouken doesn’t combo on hit at certain distances. This is entirely different from Shoryuken being unsafe on hit.
What Capcom was clearly trying to do with cr.MK is give you a bit of a risk/reward between this move and cr.MP. cr.MP reaches the same distance, has better frame data, and combos into Hadouken much more consistently. However, it doesn’t hit low. So you need to decide depending on the situation which is the better move to use, rather than mindlessly spamming cr.MK xx Hadouken, which is clearly a tactic they are actively trying to discourage.
If you watch people playing SFV Ryu well, you’ll see that they’re doing a lot of other things to be successful. Ryu’s footsies game in this game is actually hugely varied, and you need to be able to use st.MP, st.MK, cr.MK, cr.MP, st.LK, st.HK and cr.HK to be successful. If you do use these tools well, Ryu is actually one of the better footsies characters. He’s not the best in the game (and he shouldn’t be) but he more than holds his own. That’s good design. Capcom nerfing cr.MK, and the cr.MK xx Hadouken string specifically, was a good decision and it paid off.
The only thing that’s wrong with it is that it’s forcing you to vary your gameplay SLIGHTLY, which is making you butthurt because it feels like “turning back the clock”.
Just look at the set you put up yourself. Look at how effectively Daigo is using st.LK in footsies range. Experiement! It’s a new game! And try for longer than 12 days before declaring that Capcom needs to fix something.
My problem with cr.MK is 100% about it not combo’ing at maximum distance, im totaly fine with the fact that the gap was carried over from SFIV (it sucks to get used to, but thats acceptable)
But your line of thinking that you need to adapt your gameplay SLIGHTLY, is what makes me butthurt. Do you actualy think the majority of players (im talking about maybe 99% here) could judge a cr.MK hitting based on 1-2 pixels of difference with two characters swaying back and forth and a ton of other stuff to judge while the game is flowing and then make the snap judgement call to cancel or not? i’ll take the wager that very select few people will be able to do that. Take a look at the video i posted with Daigo again… notice that he dosnt know eighter (as he lets a few close to maximum distance cr.MK that hit go uncancelled because he choses to land on the safe side and not take the gamble. (none of them was maximum space).
I dont think there is any other character that has to make that kind of choich in the game and yes i do think that has to change… thats an oversight from adjusting eighter cr.MK or the speed of Hadouken’s in the beta! there is no good reason to keep it the way it is now unless your advocating you can actualy make that judgement call on the fly? because i would really like see that.
Changing stuff is nothing new… we have had changes in our Capcom games since Champion Edition adjusted stuff.
Calling me the worst kind of whiner for wanting something that should work… to actualy work… come on now!
So testing a few things out in training, EX fireball is the better choice for crouchers than EX tatsu. If you hit that combo and do double dash forward into axe kick or st.mp it beats both a back roll and regular wake up jab as a perfect meaty - unless my timing is off.
Pretty simple set up from a hit confirm. I don’t know if all this shit is written down somewhere though, I’m just making notes.
Trying out EX fireball in V trigger, if you sweep cancel V-trigger - whiff st.jab whiff st.lk - charge EX - it’s unblockable ( can’t jump out, guard crushed) unless they use a move with a lot of invincibility ( Ryu can only EX DP)
Only works if they don’t quick stand though but you can confirm that with the whiffs.
Are there a list of set ups somewhere?
No but I know someone posted a safe jump too recently! Feel free to start a new set-up thread, or stick this tech in the Okizeme thread, I think it’s relevant to both!
Good find!
Dude, no one is saying you need to be able to read the exact distance where cr.MK combos into Hado. That’s my point. Capcom is trying to discourage you from leaning on the cr.MK xx Hado string. And you’re trying your best to find a way to make it work. They SPECIFICALLY nerfed it so you wouldn’t use it at max range. Instead, at the range where you would traditionally try cr.MK xx Hado, try using something else!
Try whiff punishing with cr.MP xx Hado!
Try st.MK!
Try sweeping!
Try backing up a little, then throwing raw Hado!
Try parrying!
Also, keep in mind a lot of characters have moves and strings that only combo at specific distances. This has been the case in previous games, too. If you have godlike reactions and pixel perception, then yes, you can probably use cr.MK xx Hado more effectively than most. Bully for you! But if you don’t, there’s a whole footsies toolkit that the rest of us are exploring while you’re killing yourself trying to keep using the same tools you used in 2009!
Like I’ve mentioned there’s nothing wrong with cr.mk xx hadou especially if you have super. I just feel that at that range there are options that are better or better put, more diverse. Personally I don’t miss cr.mk but I played Sagat in 4 so I’m used to a gimped cr.mk.
FourWude vs Tokido
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZHv6ZrB2CU
The 2nd round of the first fight is godlike.
Your talking about in very vague terms… your not dealing with the fact that we are talking about 1 freaking pixel in difference of spacing. There is no other situation with any other character in this game or any other i can think off where the unsafe range is so small on HIT as 1 pixel and saying you dont need to read it… thats exactly what you need to do, because if you stick it out and the hit spark is there and you react… you get DP’ed in your face by anyone taking the gamble in that sitiuation.
And this complete “anti change” movement your crusading that stems from SF4 is leaving a sour taste in my mouth. Because where are the purists on the fences complaining about the fact that Ryu & Ken now has a functional HP.SRK in Super Turbo, because how freaking dare they change anything right? or how about the Alpha games without the ability to Dash?
This is a prime example of something that should be changed… eighter they make alot worse so the distance is judgeable in game or they remove that 1 pixel. There is NO good reason to keep it the way it is right now and you have given no good reason for it eighter… because most of what your talking about applys more so to the string on block that it SHOULD do on hit with this small a margin… because the only thing this does! is discourage the usage of c.MK as a damaging poke when people catch on about this.
Yeah other moves work, great… has no value in what we are discussing.
Again extremly vague. Your taking this example of a string that has 1 pixel of unsafe spacing and a billion that is safe… and your putting that onto an example where the unsafe range is ALOT bigger making it readable in game thus making your example completly usesless in this argument, i have no reason to be unhappy with something that i can train myself to read and react to… i have a big freaking problem with this, it messes with my reaction to hit sparks on cr.MK and turns it from a poke into a read, something that should be attributed to sweep not a medium poke.
Exactly. That’s exactly what it does. And that’s a good thing.
I can see you won’t be convinced. I hope you change your mind as you play Ryu more!
I dont agree about this but thats what it is. Again i hope i havnt come across as being a jerk. having discussions/arguments in english isnt easy for me but im thankful for your points MuayGio even though i do not agree.