Something else (sorry this my personal note pad lol) -
I was wondering why Daigo was using so much j.lk, hit box issues aside, it’s the only jumping normal that you can immidiatley dash out of after a blocked jump in and still be in reach to hit the opponent with cr.mk xx whatever.
So j.lk ( blocked) - back dash (opponent throw whiff) cr.mk xx tatsu/fireball will catch the throw wiff. It will also catch them if they do nothing, the cr.mk still reaches.
Handy. You can replace the cr.mk with st.fierce for a CC.
Yea jump lk seems like it has a better hitbox than jump mk.
Misses less, seems better at beating anti air normals.
Got bopped by my friends Rashid pretty hard. Any tips aside from frame data and punishes? More concerned with strategy and how the character skips neutral
So after watching the Daigo stream and the whole DP into Super that they were showing, I wanted to try it out in training just for giggles and practice. What I learned is that I clearly know nothing about how input leniency or buffers work.
If I tried to do the “proper” inputs, I failed every time. On the other hand, if I simply did the Solar Plexus into three qcf’s, it worked every time. Although my input display showed 2, 6, 2, 6, 2, 6 every time instead of the 2, 3, 6 that I would have expected. (Also got a lot of negative edge practice out of the exercise, but that’s another thing)
Even if I tried to do a single fireball as absolutely fast as I could, I saw the same 2, 6 inputs rather than 2,3,6 but it still worked every time. Is that just a thing that the input display does sometimes? Or is the input leniency really that…well, lenient and my inputs are just sloppy as hell? And why does qcf x3 somehow work for DP into Super?
Not played enough. I’ve not had personal problems with that match though. St.mk does seem to answer a lot of his mid range.
Honestly I think Ryus supposed to be rush down, actually I think every character is supposed to just play the 50/50 frame trap game, we all just have different tools for doing it.
But holding that position(Just outside of cr.mk range) opens you up to cr.mp anti-fireball pokes and instant air legs, there isn’t really a space that I felt Ryu dominated but merely felt even in his odds against her, whereas Chun felt like she had an advantage at the close range and mid range, I felt like just applying fireball pressure from far back and forcing her to commit to something to dodge the plasma was worthwhile. Her anti-fireball options kinda suck.
Based off of non-lab experience, I was sweeping blocked horizontal dive kicks by Rashid, cancelling on hit with v trigger, full charge electric fireball, anything.
So watching like every match Daigo plays, and from my own experience, i think i have a pretty good grip on where Ryu’s strong spots are on screen as well as his weak spots. And what I’m doing wrong, and what Daigo is doing right.
-Just inside round start position. Outdide of sweep range. HP fireball is essentially unreactable from here to anti fireball moves. They can guess jump, but trying to react is much harder here. Fireball fakes are better here because they have to guess. Lp fireball is strong here too, as a late jump will give you time to anti air. You’re also out of range of getting poked out of fireball start up and out of range of most long range characters pokes. A single dash takes you into your next strong range.
-Cr.mk, Cr.mp range. Good hitboxes, decent range, decent to really good damage from either button depending on meter.
-just past 3/4 screen and out. Fireballs are fully reactable from here, but lp fireball moves so slow it can be tough to pass thru the fireball and get a punish. Lp fb can be used as a bait fireball from here.
Obviously he’s strong up close, but most characters are.
What’s interesting watching Daigo is he completely avoids anywhere that’s not a strong spot. He doesn’t waste time trying to whiff punish vs the chuns/Karin/Nash/etc of the game. That’s more their strong spot as it can be tough to force a whiff and still be in a spot where sweep hits. He really only walks into that kind of spot if he has a block punish for the longer buttons. Like vs Ken with stand rh.
He mostly transitions from strong spot to strong spot and he’s very mobile and aggressive. He doesn’t walk to crouch mp/mk range because you have to pass thru the weak area. So he dashes instead.
i think they reduced the v-gauge build because you could get lots of bar for parrying multi-hitting moves, but there’s probably a more elegant solution. I’d make it so you get no meter from parries if you cancel into them from parry, but increase the meter build for a successful parry a bit.
As for playing against Chun - thus far it feels really rough. There’s a midscreen range where your only options are fireball or guess parry, and both of those end up being pretty risky options. There’s even a range where you can parry her st.rh and still get nothing if you don’t have super stocked. Hard to say how matchup will shake out because there’s a lot of stuff I haven’t successfully incorporated yet, but right now it feels like you really need to get your offense going and exploit your big damage to compete with her.
Basically how I’ve been doing it. Establish fireball early. s.MK for the space where fireball is too slow to poke.
When they’re hesitant because of fireball dash in and use normals to establish frame trap, throw or shimmy.
Hell yes to dash throw as a whiff punish for heavy ranged normals. Also jump ins if you read it.
As far as c.MK goes, I don’t use it as a footsie button more so than trying to catch someone holding back to walk out of pressure button. I get more mileage out of dash up c.MP or s.MP
You should be using it as a footsie button as it has a slight range advantage on cr.mp. Just keep in mind cr.mk is never an airtight block string into fireball, neither is s.mp, however cr.mp is.
1 thing i would recommend is to go in training mode and practice st.lp, s.mp xx fb after he does his light spinning mixer (which is -2 on block). Rashids dont always respect the framedata so they just do his s.lk after a blocked spinning mixer. You should be flatout beating it every time. Because of the normal priority system, you could technically also just do s.mp, s.mp xx something. With frame perfect timing this also beats any normals Rashid can do. They might try to do EX spinning mixer to get you scared to press buttons, like sf4 ken with stepkick>srk.
Which brings me to my next point. I messed around in training mode, and s.mp, cr.hp xx shoryu seems like the most consistent no-meter punish for his invincible EX spinning mixer. It seems like his hitbox in the first few grounded frames are too low to hit with s.hk. If you delay your s.hk slightly you can hit him out of it. This seemed harder to pull off when I wasn’t punishing from point blank range, maybe because blocking helps time the delay. Another problem with punishing this move is that depending on the distance to Rashid, he flies a bit past you during the last few airborne frames (but always landing in front of you!), causing him to reverse your inputs. This makes a solar plexus punish a bit inconsistent. A walkback solar plexus might work, but he might have recovered if you walk back too much. That’s why i recommend the s.mp, cr.hp xx shoryu punish.
As for his Vtrigger, it kind of feels like a stronger version of sf4 dhalsims ultra. The moment he activates it, you HAVE to respect it. I haven’t found an answer for it yet but to just take the hits and block. His overhead doesn’t feel that fast (23f startup), so just block low and watch out for the overhead.
That’s what I got so far, from playing a lot set against a friend. I’ll get back to you the next time me and him play an extended set.
The ranges are very similar, but there are definitely some combos that only work with cr.mk instead of cr.mp because of the tiny amount of extra range cr.mk has (iirc, counterhit cr.lp, st.mp, cr.mk works but cr.mp whiffs).
Instant air legs are reactable, its one of those things that just takes time before you get the flow of and once you make the chun realise they are not free, the person generaly stops abusing the move. Slide however is the real issue when v-triggered into pressure or damage.
It is a shitty matchup, just go watch how daigo is strugeling in it, he hasnt found his comfort zone yet. Like i said, i dont think my style is 100% optimal against the highest levels (and i dont think fullscreen is the answer eighter but who knows it just might be.)
^ Lol nice dodge. Anyway what are ways to set up a meaty b.HK other than after HK Tatsu? Also how much advantage does a perfect meaty b.HK give? I typically see Daigo back away after it is blocked when it should be 0 or advantage on block when done meaty.
