It’s a nerf. Say goodbye to free ultras on trade against somebody on the ground.
Question if daigo is so good why does he always play with one of the top characters in the game in SF3 it was ken top tier. Now in SFIV ryu because he has damn near no weaknesses and I’m not saying he is a sorry player or anything but as much as people suck him off an talk about how good he is I wonder why he never plays with mid tier not even low just mid
Good players generally want to win, picking top tier characters is the logical choice when trying to win.
Uh, WW, CE and HF?
oh you mean like it was in ST where you could do fun shit like whiff f+fierce, throw? yeah good idea.
Well first of all Daigo’s always plays Shoto’s so don’t expect to see him main Chun or some other top tier that doesn’t shout shoryuken when they do a anti air uppercut. And he did play Ryu in ST and now HD Remix and Ryu is mid tier, not top. As for not playing low tiers, well I think if all Shoto’s were low tier then he would still main one of them. Of course who knows what he’d really do but given his history I don’t think that would be far fetched.
okay, so now where going onto “Daigo’s success has more to do with character than skill.” And if you’re not saying it outright, it’s at least implicit within your comments.
Daigo plays Guile and Dee Jay in ST as well, but you neglect to notice this. Ryu isn’t top tier in ST, and yet daigo picks him and wins with him consistently. He picks Guile and Ryu in CvS, he occasionally plays Ryu in CvS2… you understand that he tends to pick Ryu in EVERY game he’s in.
This bullshit about how characters are easy to play and win with is so dumb, I just pop in here now and then to see how stupid it’s getting. None of you people have entered any top tournaments. Does any top player even know who you are?
**
Straight up. That’s where the best players in the west coast play. People like Valle, Wong, James Chen, Ultradavid play there.
Every move from Ryu is punishable almost. EVERY ONE.
Let’s take Ken, who everybody think got the short stick.
Ken vs Ryu’s tools:
Hadoken----> Stuffed with f.mk. Stupid easy to do.
C.mk-----> Stuffed with ken’s C.mk or sweeped if whiffed. Can also be stuffed by c.lk
SRK--------->If you block they’re fucked. If you see they have two meters, and you block an SRK, be ready to lp. and if you’re scared just fucking backdash. Shit’s easy. And if you know they’re SRK happy(which should be way before they get two meters.) SRK yourself.
Ex Tatsu---------------------------------->Fucking anything. Light punch, light kick, Medium punch, Fucking Medium kick, SRK. Somebody said this move was OP. They suck at this game.
Normal Tatsu-------------------------------> SRK.
Everything Ryu uses to win a match is right there. You don’t need to jump, and you also have tools to build an offense. Not to mention Kara mix ups.
**If you don’t believe me, you think this is untrue… you know it’s impossible: Who the fuck have you played?
I’ve played Valle’s Ken. Mike Ross’ Ken. Ed Ma’s Ken.**
You don’t know this game. Tune in Wed. if you don’t believe me. You think I’m a scrub-- call in. Let’s see how far your questions about Ryu’s overpoweredness get against one of the five best players in the U.S.
LOL, dude do see any top player maining guile or vega?
Dagger G, Makoto, Warahk, Rikisu, Tatsu, and Sanchez(now a days). Gootecks played him at the last AI Ranbat, and Ed Ma has been toying around with him recently.
And if you want OG street fighter? Jeff Schaffer and Tomo.
EX Tatsu could use another negative frame on block, imo. It’s -1 on block atm, right?
I really love Ryu but he is abit overpowered in SFIV and Capcom screw about Ken.
Most of the previous games had it that way
Ryu = stronger moves, less combos and slower
Ken = weaker moves, more combos and faster
In SFIV Ken is not just only slower, he don’t have any good combos into ultra and even his SRK is not stronger (expect EX)
And now with Metsu and seeing the damage scale I have no hope that somethign will change.
These are all good players but do they dominate the SF community or have success similar to Daigo or Justin? No, these players know their characters inside and out…they know all about the match-ups …they know what to do in certain situations so…they will be able to win a small tourney here and there…or always get to the top 8… but that’s it…they won’t be able to win EVO or other bigger tournies…
And who knows how well will these players do if they choose one of the upper tier characters…
Lol @ the part about Ken in your post. Ken DID get the short end of the stick, if you don’t believe that then there is something really wrong with you.
Really, which of those moves comes out in 1 frame? Or do you normally whiff random EX Tatsu’s when you’re not even close to the opponent? It’s essentially safe on block, does 200 damage and 250 stun, another way into ultra in the corner or into another EX Tatsu. All for something that’s not even a bnb type move for Ryu or essential to his game, just another tool that happens to be really good, among many.
As for the other discussion, its obviously the player that makes the difference, but at the same time you can’t say that these players don’t purposely use the stronger characters in the game, or else we’d still be seeing Daigo and Wong rocking Ken vs. Chun in SF4. Rufus is a beast against much of the cast but can’t use the same tactics against Ryu, hence Justin switching to Rog in the EVO Finals.
Those players win consistently. Tatsu is regarded by some as the best Vega in the country. He’s picked Balrog before and does well, but he does better with Vega 90 percent of the time. That’s why they’re top players. Everybody I just mentioned is a force at Evo. Valle also toys around with Ken. Do you know how many times that guys gotten top 8 at Evo or anywhere else. Tatsu has been doing VERY well at MAJOR So Cal tourneys. Yazu got past a Rufus/Gouki and a Sagat/Gouki team at SBO… in fact, the finalists for SBO? Sim/Abel and Viper/Honda. That’s the biggest tournament in Japan right there.
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/1571/sbobracketssf40901.gif
Evo 2009. 2 Ryu’s(one who lost the first round to Sanford.), 3 Akuma’s. 2 Boxer’s, 2 Rufus’, and 1 Cammy.
http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:F8Ez1luFdMwJ:www.eventhubs.com/news/2009/jul/19/evo-finals-early-results-day-3/+evo+09+results&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Seasons Beatings 4
- Daigo Umehara (Ryu)
- Justin Wong (Rufus, Fei Long)
- Joe “ILOVEU” Ciaramelli (Sagat)
- Ari “Floe” Weintraub (Sagat)
- Eduardo “vVv Scrub” Perez (Balrog) ? Played tiebreaker against Dr. Chaos for 5th
- Dr. Chaos (Ken)
- Andre “TwistedJago” Foney (M. Bison)
- Issei Suzuki (Akuma)
- Sanford “Santhrax” Kelly (Cammy, Akuma, Ryu)
- Eric “Ramza” Kim (Sagat)
- Chris “Fascinating” Hu (Ryu)
- Lud (Chun-Li)
- Checkmate (Ryu)
- Brandon “DemonHyo” Deshields (Blanka)
- Wolfkrone (C. Viper, Rose) ? He’s an analog stick using PS3 pad player
- Vegita-X (Zangief)
4 Ryu’s out of 13 players. And only 1 cracked top 8.
Not 1 Ryu made it to Japanese National’s top 8.
Let’s also not forget your asking me to justify how Ryu is not overpowered by comparing him to-- Who I think-- are two of the most underpowered characters in this game. And honestly, as somebody who also plays Guile-- he is the ONLY free match for Ryu. The Only one. Anyone who says otherwise hasn’t played a top player with Ryu. I’ve played Mike Ross, Tatsu, Warahk(who plays guile btw), Yeb, and Shizza-- and all of them laugh at people who can’t get past this shit. Some of them just shake their head in confusion as to how hard it is for people to punish simple shit like a whiffed low forward, or someone mashing SRK. Compare him to Rufus and Balrog, and how often you see those two characters dominate Top 8. Or Viper and Sim. But you don’t see that. You know why? Because you’re experience comes from fucking G2 where every scrub Ryu takes you for free because you can’t beat a fucking uppercut.
I can do the same shit in SF2. Shit’s so easy. And I’ can do the same shit with ken. Mash Uppercut all day and then focus backdash.
Enough Theory Fighter though.
I know you mean well, and I know where you are getting at “tier-lists do not determine the outcome of a match”, to an extent that is true and I won’t go into it because I do not want to derail this thread further. Just one request though: Please stop comparing SBO results to the tier list and use that as proof of how TIERS ARE SHIT and SKILL IS EVERYTHING.
In ST he mains Ryu, who is mid-tier. Daigo just always uses the best shoto. Sometimes the best shoto makes into the top tier.
Justin switched to Rog because Balrog for the most part has ALWAYS been a counterpick for Ryu in almost every SF game he’s been in. And straight up, you’re full of shit. The last time we argued, you gave me this shit about how you’d played TONS of SF games before, and you don’t even know this? And if you’ve been in the competitive scene so long, why did you wait till 09 to make an account? Were you lurking? Calling me incoherent and out of touch when you’re complaining on this forum about something which apparently isn’t a problem for you, only for the sake of complaining? If these OP Things don’t stop you from winning and aren’t a problem for you… and they are easy as shit to handle, why are you complaining? Attention maybe? To sound smart? I don’t get it. So you-- out of the GOODNESS of your heart are coming to the forums and asking to Nerf Ryu who you say hasn’t given you trouble with ANY of the shit you’ve complained about only to help the poor defenseless other people who aren’t smart enough to get past such things so they don’t have to deal with?
I have a reason to say this shit, because SRK’s community has always tried to bolster and educated people in order to play at a top level. But what you guys are complaining about takes an intermediate knowledge at best to beat. Name once where you’ve even went to your regional thread and asked what tourney’s were around. You haven’t. And you’re calling me misinformed? It just pisses me off that I can’t have intelligent discussion on here anymore without some guy passing off like he’s played other SF games and then posting shit contradictory to what he would have learned if he IN FACT DID PLAY OTHER SF GAMES. This isn’t Smash Boards. You can’t invent credibility by talking shit and making stuff up when you’re only competitive games has been IV, and you have little to no tournament experience. And it pisses me off that people like you are so braindead fucking stubborn, that they refuse to let go of this shit and won’t ever get better.
Because that’s all I want. Honestly. All I want is to play good players who know what they’re doing. But if all you’re going to do is cry and moan about how you can’t beat something or how something that’s very easy to get around is so impossible to beat, then it’s just a sad testament to how our player base isn’t growing because people like you don’t want to use common sense to dictate how to beat something.
Anyway, Ryu also has NO answer to low RH from Balrog. Ryu’s fireball game is nearly entirely shut down by good Balrogs, and The footsie game is in Rog’s favor quite a bit of the time. Let’s not forget Rog can just walk up right outside Ryu’s Sweep and forward range and just turtle there while Ryu’s stuck in the corner. But do I fucking complain? No. In ST when Vega shuts down my ENTIRE fireball game, and just pokes for free, do I complain? Fuck no. I outsmart his ass. From a design perspective, Ryu’s bad matchups have always been Rog, Sim, Vega, and Gouki. The only character of which that mold is TOTALLY BROKEN in this game, is Vega. Arturo Sanchez even considers the Ryu match in slight favor of Sim.
Daigo uses Ryu in every game. He used Ryu in the early days of 3s, and he also used Ryu in CvS2. Ryu’s not Top tier in that game. He’s arguably not top Tier in HDR either. You use the character that fits your playstyle and personality best. Sanford uses Cammy. Fuck, Sirlin made it to Top 8 using Fei Long. In fact, one of the Evo finals ended in a Dee Jay vs O. Sagat match. Dee Jay is mid tier.
Ex Tatsu is fucking easy to stuff is what I’m saying. Shit is BRAINDEAD easy to stuff. With any character. If I know it’s coming(which a lot of times I do) it’s easy. Not to mention it’s glitched, and sometimes you can walk right out of it.
So why argue with you? Why? Because you need to know. **You’re going to hate Super. ** Shit will still be easy to do. And if everything you want get’s taken out-- then the only game you will like is Super. Because in every other SF game, you will be free. Honestly. When I play somebody, and they can’t get past simple shit like a LP SRK mashed, or an Ex Tatsu(FUCKING LOL), It’s free. It’s basically “Well, how am I going to adapt when I can’t do these things.”
And once again. If you think I’m stupid. Go to Evo or somewhere and prove it. Come down to So Cal. Watch the Wed. Night fight stream and ask Valle directly.
What pisses me off, is that instead of arguing stuff from experience, you gave me bullshit about you playing other SF games, and calling stuff from other SF games(btw, IMO, Ex Tatsu was way better in 3s), broken when they clearly aren’t. You guys wonder why you’re never given any respect by top players or are the butt of the joke in every “LOL, IT’S AN 09er” post you see… this is why. It’s because you don’t know how to play the game and your selfish. You just want your character to get buffed and to make the other match ups easier for yourself.
And while you complain, other people get off their ass, go to tournaments, and win against that so called character you HATE so much-- and with your main none the less. And they don’t complain when they lose. When they lose, they go home, and find out how to beat that character as best they can. And You still sit here, typing away, saying you’ve played this game and this game-- when EVERY post you have seems to state the contradictory. “Ryu is overpowered in this game, because I can’t get past his low forward, his SRK, his fireball, and his super/ultra. He has stupid high damage combos, and insane offense.”
Welcome to Street Fighter. Save for how you neglected to mention that he’s so basic everything he does can be stuffed if you know it’s coming(once again, unless your Guile who the developers royally fucked as much as Vega.), like in every other SF game.
I swear to God, this is getting stupid.
And once again:
Tier’s aren’t shit. But SF4 Is stupid balanced. That’s why I like it. After playing 3s Ryu, and being discouraged at every tournament by results that pretty much read “Chun, Yun, Ken” with some dudley’s and Makoto’s thrown in, it’s nice to see a game where Sagat and Ryu can be taken out by members of mid and low tiers quite easily.
I’m trying to prove that this game is balanced, and that seemingly “Overpowered” characters aren’t anywhere near as overpowered as people say. Because Daigo is the only Ryu who consistently win’s top spot. And that man could pick Ken or Gouki and do the same fucking thing.
Well no shit daigos uses Deejay and Guile… they are broken as shit in the previous sf games… he only flocks to broken characters in each st installment. Yeah seriously lets see some “top” player win with vega, guile or el fuerte or any low tier character… and yes fei long is. It doesn’t mean you can’t win but it was real obvious justin won was busting his ass trying to win while daigo was just cruise control the whole match. Does that make any sense to you at all? Sorry but i don’t want to fight a character i have to put no thought into at all and have no weaknesses in any matchup.:yawn:
Seriously, just shut the fuck up.