its 5-5 and what are you obvious reason.
I was going to EDIT and say "anywhere from 5-5 to 5.5-4.5 (as in a possible 5.2-4.8 in Sagats favor obv) but I didn’t.
Mind games aside to this particular point.
I’m not going to say this info is coming from a top tournament or extremely experienced or knowledgeable player–because it isn’t–but I can read frames and I have experience in a local tournament or two, and have seen vids (haven’t we all?) of “the-man-himself”.
Not to be black and white, but:
Health: Sagat > Ryu (grealy significant due to both characters being zoning, thus chip damage playing a role with the clock)
Clock: Sagat = Ryu (since characters are both zoners, it favors one when that one has the health advantage, and it just so happens Sagat has more health so the clock is slightly on his side in my opinion)
Damage: Sagat >> Ryu (Ryu can get big damage in the corner, and has the ‘advantage’ of Sagats ultra not fully connecting in ‘there’ too, but Sagat’s damage is Sagat)
Speed: Ryu > Sagat (Sagat’s normals and recovery, Ultra, and Tiger Knee cover much range and safely at that)
Footsies: Sagat = Ryu ISH (the hot debate I see in the Ryu vs Sagat talks is where Ryu is said to have the most desirable position, which is in/out of footsies. Ryu has sweep, Solar Plexus and overhead, and Lk.Tatsu. Sagat has TK, Tiger Uppercut OVER SRK due to range, recovery, and invincibility. But of course there is more to it than listed here)
So overall Sagat has the advantage (if you want to call it my opinion you can) stats wise, generally speaking over Ryu, who has some of his own. But Sagat holds the cards, imo.
I’m in favor of giving Ryu the f.MK (Sempu Kyaku) and the HCF+K (Joudan Sokotou Geri)
Though, if they do, the EX version of the JSG shouldn’t kick them to the wall and bounce them off. Pushing them away a bit would be fine. That’s just another Ultra setup and Ryu does NOT need another one of those. Trust me. I main Ryu in SF4 and the character REALLY IS FINE THE WAY HE IS. Giving him the SK and the JSG would be just a bit more variety. If anything, they should be toned down a bit from their previous incarnations. (Perhaps more recovery frames or the like… )
As for his second Ultra:
They’re giving Gouken the Denjin and Gouken already possesses the SSRK in his repetoire. Unless they plan on giving him the same move, I think the Metsu Shoryuken from SFA would do fine. Make it like the Metsu Hadoken where if it whiffs, give it a ton of recovery frames.
Fake fireball would be neat and would incorporate some mind games. I guess you could put it as QCB+P. The reason I’m against the idea is because a lot of SF4 characters’ ultras are based on going through projectiles. (i.e.: Chun, Abel, Bison) If you make the mistake to throw a FB when they’ve got charge and/or Ultra meter, you deserve sucking down a Hosenka or Soulless. (especially at full screen, why would you do that?)
A lot of high level play in SF4 involves mind games, and forcing the opponent to make mistakes. Good Ryu players mix it up between throws, f.MP’s, c.HK’s and SRK’s close range to where you want the opponent guessing what you are going to do and they will have to adapt to it or take damage. Mix it up in midair with Air Tatsu and j.HK/j.MK/j.MP/J.HP. The main problem with Ryu players is that they’re too predictable and good players using ANY CHARACTER will be able to appropriately punish said Ryu when they make a mistake.
I really like this idea as well. It’ll most likely be QCFx2+KKK or perhaps QCBx2+PPP/KKK
EDIT:
Sagat has a bit of advantage on Ryu. His reach is pretty fearsome when you’re cornered and when he’s at the right distance from you. s.HK and TU’s usually stop a lot of jump-ins.
I say the character is good as is, just give him a fake fireball again…
Fuck no. Not in this game.
i think ryu is fine the way he is. maybe add more colors or costumes, that be pretty cool. i wouldnt mind like that cool donkey kick like he has in 3rd strike/ tvc. and he gets some kinda new moves, i wouldnt mind at all.
i just hope they nerf sagat a bit, so unfair how ryu has to hit sagat so much and sagat is too damn strong.
ryu players thinking only about themselves?
anyway.
all i want is the trade srk > ultra gone.
so would ryu with
fake fireball
hop kick
donkey kick
ultra shoryuken
(and all sf4 stuff too)
be broken?
if not,why hasnt he got all that stuff.give us what we want!
The point of a fake fireball is to bait jump ins because his fake fireball is suppose to have sonic boom-like recovery. So essentially his fake fireball would be a set up for his Ultra set ups if you get what I mean. Depending on when your opponent jumps, you could land either LP SRK into Ultra or HP SRK>FADC>Ultra.
So essentially Ryu would be a nightmare for non fireball characters. Characters like Rog or Gief can’t do there specials on reaction to hit Ryu if he baits a move because he’ll probably recover by the time the moves reach him. Anyways I’d gladly accept the move if they included it but for the reasons listed above, it may piss off a lot of people.
Yeah, the fake fireball would be deadlier in SF4 than in any other game, with all the super/ultra juggling from Shoryuken and lack of air guard/air CC. Doesn’t have a place in it (unless the recovery is so similar to the normal fireball that it’s just a taunt).
Leave hop kicks to other characters (Fei, etc), Ryu already has enough command attacks IMO.
Donkey kick would be fun. Would mean giving him an ultra setup even easier than the others (EX wall bounce) though, doesn’t sound like non-Ryu players would take that well.
Ultra Shoryuken would (will?) be boring, we already have two.
Metsu Shoryuken as a second Ultra would be cool. Just don’t make it like Alpha 3’s…
I guess nobody wants a hurricane kick Ultra?
I certainly would not like a hurricane kick ultra. I just can’t see it as being as dramatic as other options. Besides, Ryu already has a Shinkuu Tatsumaki in his EX… is it going to be a Metsu Tatsumaki instead? Doesn’t sound right.
Yeah, sometimes the aesthetics of an ability are more important than the functionality for me 
hmm… aesthetics
denjin tatsumaki? sucks in like seths ex.tanden, tazer stuns, and hits 8-12 times
it would look purdy pretty 
He’s gotta have electricity swirling around him. :nunchuck:
Sounds good but could be godly op. No other ultra/super in this game is capable of stunning so the combo possibilities are unique/mad/gdlk.
Two things I want from Ryu’s new Ultra
-
Works with the old set ups like corner EX Tatsu/Hado or SRK->FADC.
-
Much more powerful the the Metsu Hado, at least 50% when full. I just want to hurt that bastard Sagat as much as possible.
So bascially you want Metsu Hadouken x 1.5
Doesn’t that sound kinda stupid.
More like 1.3x the damage, I think that’s fair. Ryu’s combo may be easy to land, but it’s pretty weak, especially if you hit confirm into the SRK with jabs or shorts.
No I don’t want another Metsu Hadoken. I’d like to see a Hurricane or SRK Ultra, I just hope they work with the old set ups and is more powerful then the Metsu Hado which as we all know can be pretty weak depending on how and when it’s used. Unless you’re suggesting that the new Ultra shouldn’t work with the old set ups.
Yes, I am suggesting exactly that. Ryus’ new ultra should not be a copy and paste of his Metsu in terms of functionality. Perhaps it should do more damage but be overall alot harder to land.
But suggesting that the best ultra in the game needs to have a bigger, badder older brother is just silly man, especially when that big bad brother is basically just gonna make the Metsu Hadouken outright obsolete.
The current Ultra set ups are already there, so there is no reason for them to not work with the new one. Maybe some will work but others won’t. There is also a chance that the new Ultra will require a grounded opponent(or jump in) or the damage output will be pretty weak much like Ken’s current Ultra.
But anyways if it’s difficult to land and does similar damage to Ken’s Ultra even when using a set up then it will be dead on arrival(or obsolete as you say) as no Ryu player will use it in a serious tournament.