Ryu changes in SSFIV thread

What are you talking about? What Ken is complaining about his best SRK? MP is great, as an AA–that’s it. Well I should add as a very close reversal as well.

There is a problem with Ken’s Fierce. As brought out, many players feel it gets stuff way too easily by just about everything. If it’s strictly for combos and never designed to use as an AA, it’s pretty weak in combos.

His LP SRK is also a problem. Gets’s stuff as an AA so no using it to FADC–Ultra. Slower recovery than other shotos, insert Ken faster rant isn’t useful as a poke anymore because of it’s recovery making it easily punishable. and it’ not even Ken’s best reversal–MP is–yet the first hit doesn’t knockdown.

Are you just purposely skipping over the fact that LP and FP SRK aren’t that good, or rather average? We all know his MP one is excellent at AA. Has nothing to do with what majority of posters are talking about, neither is it what Nitro is referring to.

Ken has problems doesn’t mean all his SRK’s suck…

Walk Speed
Extremely weak “second” Ultra
FP SRK hit box/damage
LP SRK recovery
Target Combo being useless
c.FP waay stricter than other shotos

Are probably the most popular complaints. Not even trying to be rude, but what exactly are you talking about? Ken is fine as an AA defender. Even though he doesn’t have Ultra options, his MP and EX SRK are great for countering jumpins. That’s not what most ken player complain about though?

And plz don’t turn this into a character skill use thread. Shotos are basic characters. Regardless if you think they are easy or not, their strategy is always easy. Characters like Chun always have back dashes and normals that outclass them–they are oriented toward a different type of player. Regardless of who you play as, Ken has issues in SF4. No, it’s not as serious as Guile, but he does need improvement. It’s not about what Ken has going for him, it’s about solidifying a reason to pick him over Ryu. On paper, it really doesn’t exist right now.

D/P

Plz delete

Yes you would. play Fei long for a month straight, 5 hours a day. You’ll start to say

"man I wish Fei Long could do this thing that Ryu can do. "

“Man I wish Fei’s BnB combos weren’t twice as hard as Ryu’s.”

“Man I wish Fei’s Ultra didn’t suck unlike Ryu’s.”

“Man I wish my Low Forward could be cancelled into something besides super.”

“Man I wish my sweep had longer range like Ryu’s.”

“At least I have a good overhead; Oh shi-”

I would be thrilled if AA light DP into ultra was removed in Super. Thats the biggest noob move ever.

As much as I agree that jumpins should be punishable, I just don’t think I should lose half my life for it.

Hear, all ye good people! Hear what this brilliant and eloquent speaker has to say! :tup:

Of course Ken needs to walk faster and have a better srk…it needs to be as good as Ryu’s and Ryu’s needs to be worse. We already had this discussion and you, like most Ryu players, ignored the logic and instead just got very uncomfortable at the prospect of playing a character that doesn’t excel at every aspect of the game.

That said, Parabellum’s point still stands. Yeah Ken should have an awesome srk because he’s always been about having an awesome srk. But complain about srk trading in SF4 to a Rose player. Ken’s the worst shoto in the game and he’s still not really bad at anything. This is the point of the post you quoted…and yet you respond by again repeating your mantra of not taking anything away from King of All Trades and in fact, no surprises here, you want more tools, thus serving as an example of the very thing Parabellum was talking about, in the very post where you attempt to disagree.

Man, all I was trying to say was that this shit is all relative.

I just started playing Ryu recently, it took almost an entire year for me to get over the hatred I have for him because he is like that song on the radio that you have heard 10 million fucking times.

And I have to say, he is a fucking DREAM compared to most of the mid tier characters. Same goes for Ken, but of course no one would argue against the notion that Ryu > Ken in almost every way (except for pokes and throw game).

All I have to do is spend two bars (which are easy as hell to create by FB zoning) and I can purchase a 100% safe option select that works offensively AND defensively. If its blocked, I escape safely. If it hits, they eat Ultra, untechable knockdown, and a distance reset for more zoning. DP > FADC > Ultra is the single most powerful tool in the game. You people should try maining a character who DOESN"T get an option like that and see how that plays out for you.

You shoto users may have NO idea how pampered having a DP has made you. Now I know that is a huge generalization, and there are pleny of guys in here who main Ryu, but are probably better than I am with ANY character they wish to use…you guys can skip this part. But if you main Ryu or Ken, and you really can’t use any of the non shoto characters well, then you guys are in for a fucking education if you ever step away from the almighty DP.

Try playing a character who depends on a NORMAL to AA. Seriously, not just one match…spend some real time fighting good opponents having to rely on an AA with NO INVINCIBILITY and then try to come back in here and cry some more about how Ken’s jab dp recovers too slow, or how his fierce DP trades with too many attacks.

Or even worse, try playing a character like Sim or Chun…for those characters, when someone jumps at you, if you can’t safely backdash (and often you cannot)…you have to judge:

Distance
Timing
What attack did they use?
Choose your own normal to AA with
Make sure you do NOT hold the wrong direction on the stick or you get the wrong normal (happens for chun with MK and also for sim iirc)

Get ANY of those judgments wrong and you eat an entire fucking jump-in combo, and guess what, your health bar is less than 1000 from the start.

Seriously…this post is not directed at the top players in here, you guys know who you are…but this IS directed at the people who can basically only play shotos, and still whine about AA options.

DIAF if you think any DP in SF4 is underpowered.

The man speaks the truth! Seriously, the DP is probably the best AA and maybe spacial in the game.

There’s no maybe about it.

Shoto users like to respond with “Its always been like that and SRK isn’t even as good compared to previous games.” Which is obviously not the case when you consider how the move works in SF4 with regards to FADC, leading into ultra, and the reversal and blockstring issues that srk benefits from. Also, srk itself might have, for example, started up faster in previous games but again, relative to SF4 and how other characters’ similar options got nerfed or don’t benefit from the system quirks, it’s the single best asset a character can have.

It’s hilarious when people say Ryu is the jack of all trades but master of none.

It’s more accurate to say that everything Ryu does do is close to the best, whether it’s due to startup/recovery of his tools or the bull**** power of his SRK. If there was a scale to compare various aspects of the game, going from 1 to 10, with 10 being the best then Ryu would be at an 8 for most things, with his wakeup at 9.5.

Not generalizing to all characters here, but with many in the cast, they might be at 9.5-10 for what they specialize at, but more like 3-4 for everything else. That’s assuming the character’s speciality is really at 9.5 to begin with.

That being said, I still don’t find Ryu that OP, but rather the rest of the cast (minus Sagat :tup:) is underpowered in general.

Edit: I don’t know if it’s really possible to make the rest of the cast close to Ryu/Sagat’s level anyway. I can only imagine how freaky Guile and Dhalsim would be they were more offensive, for example.

wait wait wait…

bison has reliable AA???

I know you play bison, he is my secondary. I find his standing RH to be a fantastic AA, as good as a standing normal could possibly be without invincibility or the ability to execute it from a crouch.

I would say he has a solid AA normal, one of the better ones in the game, but its not UNIVERSAL.

Ryu’s not overpowered, he just works properly. I’ve spent time with every character but blanka and sim, and the only really defining trait I can see with Ryu is that his shit works. There’s no other way to describe it other than, it works. His hadouken, shoryuken, tatsu, super, and ultra, and all EX variants, work clearly as intended. There’s no misconceptions about any of them. Even his normals function just like they should.

Ryu’s combos are easy to connect once you hit them, his moves have gratuitous amounts of frame advantage. Why should this be nerfed? Why doesn’t every character have this? Why should anyone’s bread and butter combo’s take hours of practice to hit 100%? That mind set should be THE mind set. As ryu you can quite easily just tap the buttons out and do what you want drop the FADC wait half a sec throw the ultra BOOM 600 damage combo.

…And people want Ryu nerfed while simultaneously wanting a more offensive game? I find that a little ironic.

And it’s not about making Guile and Dhalsim more offensive, it’s about making what they were given function at a highly usable rate. Flash Kick isn’t at that point and hell to be perfectly honest Sonic Boom isn’t either (all of them should have the same recovery and a smidge more damage). That’s the bottom line, Ryu excels hard because of massive frame advantage and absolutely perfectly designed specials mixed in with a dominating super and ultra. As a long time Guile main, he just doesn’t work. His damage output is garbage and his specials don’t give him any outstanding advantages.

It’s the same thing with Sagat–everything functions very much as you’d expect it to.

It’s not a matter of them being overpowered or anything, it’s just that they were clearly designed as intended and just about everyone else fell short.

Ken’s DP’s could certainly be better though that could also go for the same in that Chun’s AA options could also be better and less reliant on matchup/jump angle specifics. Which kinda coincides with her being so free on wake up. Super SFIV should be about people having good shit. Not a MP AA that’s pretty solid but still will sometimes whiff and only get one hit out and leave you super open to punishment. This isn’t a game where all characters have strong options. This is a game where the developers were afraid to give characters strong options. Ken’s Ultra doesn’t even hit 100 percent on juggles. They were afraid he was going to be top tier if it did? Ryu would still be a better character than him even if it hit 100 percent off FADC or juggle all the time. Ryu still has better link combos that lead to untechable knockdowns while Ken has to settle for 50/50 mix up combos that leave the opponent standing if they end in hurricane kicks or settle for techable knockdowns with shoryu combos. Ryu still has better frames on his normals, a much better focus attack and better fireballs that knockdown on EX. If Ken’s fireball at least knocked down on EX he’d have a lot more opportunities for damage on that alone.

There are 2 ways to fix Ken. Either make him more like Ryu or the better more interesting way would be to buff up what he is already capable of doing so it can be applied with more efficiency and strike more fear into the opponent on the defensive.

Kich got it right…the main problem is Ryu works WAY BETTER than Ken does. The only reason to pick Ken in SFIV is to pick a character that plays like a gimped version of Ryu that has to stay in close to be a threat. Which basically boils down to people who like the character or like the way he plays. Which is nice but it dies to Defensive Fighter IV.

On that last note…nobody in SFIV is overpowered. Your character is either really good, decent or just sucks. That’s the reason Ryu seems overpowered. Cuz your character probably just sucks. There are very few really good characters in the game. It’s like a bunch of minor league characters facing off against a few major league characters. The major league characters are tested for drugs and playing pretty damned fair compared to top tiers from older SF games but the minor league characters are just that bad compared to them.

Why does everyone say ryu has a better FA? Is it just cause of the step back? I tested awhile back and found that ken/ryu FA has the same range, just that the animation is different. Frames?

Step back and executes plenty faster. Ryu can catch counter hits on his focus attack all day and can run it over and over again in certain matchups to fish for normals to focus or just straight up counter hit with it. Akuma’s is even better because he steps back much further basically allowing him to almost fully exit the opponent’s attacking space and then instantly move inside their attacking space with even more range than Ryu’s. Ken’s focus is also gimped because he is airborne during it which will cause it to whiff over some low attacks and gets him punished for trying it.

So ryu’s hand which hits higher than ken’s in the air kick, will hit crouching attacks but ken’s won’t? Ok. . .

Well what I was trying to say is that due to the slower start up of Ken’s focus attack it’s easier to use crouching attacks to make it whiff. Not 100 percent on it but I’ve definitely seen Ken’s focus attack just whiff right through shit. Either way Ryu’s faster start up and better recovery on block/whiff beats the shit out of Ken’s focus attack no argument required. No point in defending Ken’s focus attack when Ryu’s is clearly better.

Ok, got ya. Didn’t realize there was such a difference in speed.