Ryu changes in SSFIV thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
1501

So you’re example of something game breaking is Mash SRK in SF4?

You’re right. I didn’t get your post. I gave it more credit than I thought. Never fucking mind. Really. And your last sentence pretty much surmised what I said, but none the less I have a “somewhat incorrect history lesson” while you are Jesus in your fighting game knowledge right?

You who came to this site and probably effectively started playing fighting games competitively in 2009. Here’s what you don’t get… your second paragraph is wrong. With Ryu you have to constantly mix it up 100 percent of the time, because if your opponent figures you out, you’re fucked. More so than any other character.

And you didn’t fucking read what I said… or Valle said. Every wednesday, I hang out with Valle and a bunch of top players at SHGL’s wednesday sessions, and everything you guys are complaining about is basic shit that’s so easy to get past, it’s ridiculous that you’re complaining so much. So let me reiterate

Why is it someone like me, can play Ken, Vega, or even fucking Guile-- and have less of a hard time with one of the Best Ryu’s in socal(jorge), and you have infinite troubles with Ryu mashing SRK. I’m not even top 8 status yet, and yet I can do this, and you can’t. It’s very basic.

So maybe I should have just said this: What you call gamebreaking-- ISN’T GAMEBREAKING! It’s really FUCKING EASY to get around. The ONLY time I get hit with Mash SRK’s is when I get predictable with throws or Miss a combo. And when I know they are mashing SRK(because after the first time, it’s really easy as hell to pinpoint.) All I do is just stop my blockstring and I get a free combo. WITH ANYONE.

That was my point. It’s not me being defensive, it’s you guys talking shit like “Oh it just takes someone braindead to play Ryu” and it just shows you really have no idea what you’re talking about. Someone a few pages ago said something completely stupid along the lines of “Akuma is harder to play than Ryu.” I can’t begin to tell you how much I disagree with that statement.

The only thing close to gamebreaking in this game is Sagat’s insane damage, and even then if you buff stamina, it shouldn’t be too much of a problem. And on top of that, Sagat loses at Footsies to a good half of the cast if they know what they’re doing.

Seriously? I’m literally just reiterating Valle’s point. That man has been playing SF for 15 years competitively and knows a hell of a lot more than you do. He’s been posting over the last 5 pages and each time he posts you blatantly ignore it and go on your own tangent.

And then you point the finger at him and go “well you pick ryu, obviously because he has distinct advantages over the rest of the cast?” as if he’s only picking him because he’s top tier. Which is Why I responded to your last post the way I did.

And in my opinion, buffing the rest of the cast doesn’t mean giving them across the screen Tiger uppercuts, it means giving them more tools.

Give Vega more speed on his normals and some more damage. Make his anti air decent. MAKE HIS OVERHEAD AN ACTUAL FUCKING OVERHEAD.

Give Guile a half decent Anti Air, and buff his low forward so he has some decent pokes to use. Increase Damage on his boom.

Give Sakura more damage potential-- and give her some better normals.

Give Gouken much better normals to use.

Give Fuerte some other tools besides Vortex mix up and having to link into an infinite.

Let Abel have some more consistent combo strings, so reversal’s don’t fuck him over.

Everybody else in the cast is tournament Viable. Not for 5th place… no no no, for first.

Chun Li(Shizza)
Blanka(Moval)
Sagat(Richard)
Ryu(Valle)
Balrog(Gootecks)
Bison(AndyOCR)
Dhalsim(UTJ)
Honda(Mike Ross)
Gen(Yeb)
Cammy(Jchensor)
Fei Long(Xbladez)
Ken(Dr. Chaos)
Akuma(Ed Ma)
Viper(Marn)
Rufus(J. Wong)
Zangief(Itabashi)
Seth(Online Tony)

And you can even add Abel and Gouken to the list as well. Listed with them are people who have gotten to TOP 8 with each of them. No explain to me… How would BUFFING every character with what I said-- and making some characters MUCH better and other characters only somewhat better-- be a bad thing.

It’s funny-- There were more Akuma’s at Evo and at NCR than Ryu’s but nobody seems to notice this. Akuma has many more tools, better damage and combo potential, and better footsies. Even with the health disadvantage, if he gets a knock down, a competent player will fuck you up.

In fact, I have only seen maybe one Ryu in top 8 every single time, and those guys are just good players in general. Valle, Choi-- these guys can use anybody and fuck you up. Would you like Valle to play you with Gouken next time? You’ll lose just as bad and probably feel the same way about Gouken’s damage and priority.

Here’s another question while we’re at it… when Ryu gets a knockdown on you-- what is so hard for you to deal with compared to Akuma? He can’t meaty demon flip into mix up throws-- he can’t meaty air fireball mix up, so tell me. What’s so difficult?

Maybe I’m getting off tangent here, and It may sound like I’m trying to shift the blame to Akuma, but I’m not. I think he’s a fairly balanced character-- but what I don’t get is the logic behind “Hey, there’s this really simple and predictable character and he’s overpowered because he can mash SRK. But this other character who has better footsies, fireballs game, STRONGER SRK, insane damage output and better mix up game-- with a little health disadvantage… he’s perfectly balanced.”

and once again, the only 3 Ryu’s I see consistently win tournaments are Valle, Choi, and Daigo-- and those players have their own pedigree already. I see more Rufus’, Vipers, Abel’s, and Rog’s win tournaments than I do Ryu’s. If the top 8 aren’t having trouble with this character-- why the fuck are you? Ask yourself this… if mashing SRK is so easy to win with-- why are they able to get around this and not complain about it? Seriously?

The ONLY complaints I hear from top players about Ryu is shit like “His low forward is nuts.” That’s IT! Even Trade DP I Hear “Why the fuck are you jumping at Ryu?” EVERYBODY save for GUILE has a way to beat him at footsies. EVERYBODY. VEGA can fucking do it. DAN can do it. FUCKING DAN.

So what do I think? I think you’re all just butthurt you can’t beat him. Seriously. I think you’re pissed because there’s some Ryu player who’s doing really simple ass shit and you can’t get around it… so you’re blaming the character. Straight up. If you think I’m wrong-- then prove it.

What besides random SRK’s, and low forward is your problem? Linking ultra’s? I have a question, why don’t you ever try to beat Ryu on the ground. It’s very possible. In fact, if you’re Vega, Chun Li, Balrog, Dhalsim, Akuma, Seth, Bison, or Ken… you’re more than capable of doing so-- because the Low forward is Risky against ALL of those characters.

And if it ISN’T a personal problem-- and you have NO trouble beating Ryu’s 100 percent of the time-- explain to me how keeping his shit the same come next game is really going to affect you, when your character gets buffed. There’s no possible reason for you to bitch why Ryu should get a nerf, because he’s not winning every single tournament-- and he’s doesn’t seem to be a problem for you. What are you arguing for-- if all that’s going to happen is that your character is going to get better while Ryu is the same boring shit that works? And LOL-- you think Ryu vs Vega in this game is hard? Play Ryu vs Vega in ST. I think I already mentioned this but that match is fucking STUPID.

So tell me, save for MASH SRK, and Low forward-- why are you losing to Ryu? Like I said, EVERY CHARACTER can beat him on the ground-- so don’t give me “Godly footsies” because that shit doesn’t fly. Everyone has a clear way to beat Low forward, and those characters I listed fit that pedigree quite well.

What? You can’t get past the fireballs? Focus Dash in. What? You get SRK’ed when you jump. DON’T JUMP. What? You can’t win at footsies? SWEEP the low forward or use whatever normal you have that can beat it(and you have them.) He keeps jumping in at you. You play vega right? S.HK or air throw. I have 3 friends who play vega, and when I jump at them they air throw me EVERY FUCKING TIME. So I don’t Jump.

Tell me why you’re losing, and I’ll give you a simple ass way to beat it.

I can go on, but my point is there. He’s NOT game breaking in any way shape or form. Akuma, Ken, Sagat, Cammy, Fei long and even GUILE can reversal you through a block string-- and save for guile they can all do big damage. Fuck, Cammy’s ultra link does a TON OF DAMAGE-- and her uppercut beats Ryu’s clean every single time! She can combo her ultra off it as well. AND IT DOES MORE DAMAGE!*

I don’t get why this shit is so “Game breaking” for you guys… because it’s really not that way for me, or any of the people I play with.

Sorry for the long post. Happy Holidays.

*I’m fairly sure of this. You can double check to make sure, but I’m pretty positive it does more damage.

1502

I just want to clarify since you have mentioned it twice, when you bring up the ST vega vs ryu, you are mentioning it because vega beats ryu right?

1503

Er…Ryu is freakin awesome in this game…

He’s not hard to master, he’s not hard to play against, he’s not hard to lose with.

Trade ultra is bogus, because sometimes two player truly read each other fairly evenly, and Ryu gets the good side of the toss by juggling with Ultra. IMO, that’s the ONLY thing “cheap” about Ryu. And that’s not that big of deal, but It would be nice if it was removed.

I don’t know how you guys are actually having this long a conversation about Ryu. I’m no where near as dedicated as pro’s, but Ryu is fine. Sagat needs some damage nerfs because he can do everything Ryu can, some better, and takes away more damage.

But then, I can’t even see having a discussion this long about Sagat either? All Sagat’s need is (just like Ryu) that trade Ultra nonsense removed, and a few damage nerfs. (S.RH Ultra is just awfully painful) Sagat much more so than Ryu, actually just has weird thing about him that are very good (his hitbox on his j.elbow lol) and he actually kills a few characters unlike Ryu.

The rest, Balrog, Rufus, Bison, Akuma all have pretty good stuff to use, but also all have weaknesses, and you can beat them with almost everyone.

Play the game…get better. I can only see a few small gripes about Sagat (Honestly, he does have some Bs with him) and character specifics. The rest of this stuff seems to be about making winning easier, which is just boring.

I am all for a more offensive style game with SSF4 though.

1504

Fuck yes. The Vega v Ryu match in SF4 is difficult for Vega-- but the thing is that a good Vega can keep you away with pokes fairly easily.

This is the same in ST. Only Vega does WAY more damage and Ryu’s normals are SHIT compared to Vegas. He outpokes Ryu, his wall dive is INSANE in that game, and his Izuna drop is just as bad. You have to be 100 percent on your game to beat him with Anti airs and everything else.

ST is a balanced game still-- so it’s very doable… but It’s so much more of an uphill climb. It feels like I literally have no tools to deal with the matchup a lot of the time-- which isn’t true. But Everytime I throw a fireball-- stuffed with a poke. Every time I low forward-- stuffed. Vega just controls space so fucking well in that game.

I’m just trying to illustrate that bad matchups in this game aren’t NEARLY as bad as you think they are. Except for maybe Seth Vs. Gief. That shit is stupid.

1505

^^ Well I’ve been arguing this for pages now, but people still don’t seem to get it.

1506

lol…Yeah I see…

People will always complain, but I just don’t get why it’s about Ryu. I love playing against Ryu. Most average Ryu’s are so predicate and robotic lol.

I can try out all types of mix-ups with Ken and bait there favorite lp DP all day.

1507

Hey guys, it’s Christmas, let’s not fight.

Atleast…not today : )

1508

I agree with Ranix and RedRapper with their insight on Ryu vs balance vs competitive play.

I played Ranix during SBO in Japan and we were grinding at the game just trying to get better. Nobody in that arcade had crazy winstreaks and a lot of characters were used. Part of getting better is the ability to surpass plateauing and Ranix is trying to educate on how to overcome it.

Redrapper attends my weds night fights sessions with So.Cali’s top players. Lately I’ve been banning people that have shown lil to no improvement. Redrapper has been struggling during the last few sessions but ends up clutching out the wins. He’s a Ryu player and knows all of Ryu’s FADC combos and strats. Even with the knowledge I’m spittin, he still struggles vs a lot of “low-mid tier” match ups. If he mashes SRK he’s gonna get rocked, if he gets impatient he’ll run into pokes all day, etc. The guy is being exposed to SMART play by his peers over an “advtantaged,BS” character is my point.

If you think Redrapper just sucks and plays scrubby, I invite you to one of my Weds Night Sessions so you can see for yourself what level of competition he’s playing against.

1509

^^must move to cali, sigh/

1510

Fixed.

1511

Doesn’t the fact that everyone plays against/with Ryu make him harder to win with? If I get beat by a Ryu, almost every time it was my fault. He doesn’t have huge advantages over anyone except Guile IMO (and those can be overcome by solid play). People gotta adapt because he can be played differently - I definitely think it’s a match where the player matters a lot more than the character.

It takes a great player to do well with Ryu, and I think (other than trade DP ultra), he is the best example of balance in this game. He’s got tools but he’s nowhere near broken or poorly designed. They did a pretty great job with him IMO.

Akuma/Rog too.

Edit: I will admit though, that absolute guard leading to mash DP is something I don’t like and hope to see removed, but hardly gamebreaking.

1512

my problem is that in previous games, if you had a combo hitting you while blocking, you had to ACTUALLY watch for your opponent to miss a link, in order to punish. Now, you can just start blocking, then mash Down/Forward + Punch. Where is ANY skill in that? To say that is ‘fine’ is a joke, especially considering it only benefits a small amount of players, mostly shotos.

My only other problem is the trade uppercut thing. Sure, you can argue that you shouldn’t jump at bison, but the problem is that it trades with a ton of specials too. You can argue whether or not regular jumpins should be allowed to trade ultra (in my opinion, you shouldn’t be rewarded for poor timing as Ryu, while your opponent gets punished), but when Ryu trades with an Ex HS from Bison, or various other characters specials, THAT is where a problem arises.

So what you’re saying is that if Ryu has Ultra, my moves should be reduced to an insanely small list, just so ryu can be flashy? Only other character that can do that is Seth, and people bitch about that low damage ultra all the time. Being knocked down shouldn’t mean you’re 100% safe aside from having an SRK baited. That’s stupidity. I’m not calling you stupid, or trying to start a flamewar, just stating that as much as you love Ryu, the current setup of Street Fighter gave him too much of an advantage.

Mashing SRK’s out of combos, autocorrecting SRKs, trading WAAY too many moves (and still being able to punish whereas the opponent cant do squat) just adds up to too much of an advantage for Ryu.

And that’s not taking into account his fireball, and quality pokes.

dont even get me started on how OP ex Tatsu is.

Costly or difficult to avoid is still better than COMPLETELY LACKING, as many other characters have. Bison has ONE setup, jMP, and the priority on that is lame.

fix’d

1513

It’s not like you don’t know where your opponent’s links are gonna show up. You can still input the command for an srk when the link arrives and still have enough time to block again.

1514

You conveniently skipped this ENTIRE PAGE. Read calipowers posts.

And stopped with this “fixd” shit. It’s cute and all that you can make that joke, but it’s not making you sound intelligent.

1515

Giant reversal windows dont help much. And in older versions of SF, yes, you had to know when the link arrived…now, you can just MASH it out, and no matter what you’re timing, as long as your opponent doesn’t properly hit their combo timing, you are 100% countering it.

c-c-c-c-c-c-c-combo breaker

1516

More convenient skipping. Good shit. Alright, let me just lay this out for you.

You play Akuma and Dictator. First off, Ryu should NOT fireball you while you’re crouching as dictator and have meter. If you think he’s going for a poke, you can scissor kick him. If you know he’s going to jump, you have your standing HK.

Ryu CANNOT JUMP EVER if you have ultra as Akuma, and if you get ONE knockdown, he CANNOT SRK if you Demon flip right. I’m not talking about Demon flip from a weird angle… no. I mean as in correctly.

It’s not like Ryu’s can just go “WE CAN DO EVERYTHING NOW!” in every match. And if they are doing everything to you, it means you either:

A)Suck
B) Don’t know what to punish.

Especially with Dictator. You should be rushing that shit down.

Akuma is about even… and he has WAY more tools than Ryu does. And he can Mash an even STRONGER SRK-- not to mention ONE MISTAKE leads to a 35-40 percent combo WITHOUT METER. Without Ultra. Just on Akuma’s merits alone. You want to talk about free wakeup shit? How about this… you can walk up to me when I have a sliver of life left and just EX SRK. I’m fucked. If I block I get chipped… and you’re SRK beats mine out clean 100 percent of the time. Cammy can do the same thing. Fuck, you can ex Headstomp if you see a fireball with dictator.

You’re just… bad. If you honestly think Ryu is the only one who can shut down options with Ultra then you really don’t know shit about this game. No if and’s or buts. You’re going to get rocked every single time because you just don’t know what to punish. Do you really think I have every option available to me when chun is sitting on an ultra? Do you really think I can just fireball away at Blanka’s who have meter? Do I really want to play the fireball war with a Guile who has Meter on his side-- recovers much quicker than I do with his boom-- and is used to jumping over FB’s on reaction? Do I want to fireball a Vega when he’s sitting and poking me, just begging me to move back and gain distance so he can ultra? I can’t jump at him. He’s got a S.HK and a good player is just going to air throw me.

And EX TATSU is op? Do you know how easy that shit is to stuff if you see it coming? I had a friend do it with Cammy’s light punch. On reaction. A FUCKING LIGHT PUNCH. And if they combo it even a SLIGHT distance away, you can just walk out and combo them. That’s right-- you can just WALK OUT of an EX Tatsu.

Reversal Spam benefits most of the cast by the way. Cammy, Ryu, Vega, Dan, Ken, Sagat, Fei Long, Gouken, Blanka, Balrog, Akuma, Guile, Rufus, Sakura, Gief and Seth.

Why do you people not know this shit?

1517

So either you are gambling with links vs a SRK FADC, or you lack baiting options(mix ups) when you have your opponent in blockstun.

Come on bro, it’s been 10 months and you know a SRK is coming under convenient defensive conditions (2 stocks + ultra).

Accept the game is dumbed down, because I agree with that at least, and adapt to these frustrating “scrub friendly tactics” and punish accordingly.

Or do you need us to spoonfeed you on how to do that too?

1518

People expect ryu to suck?

He isnt overpowered…

1519

09’ers>Valle

1520

Ryu is the base character model of SF4, Ryu is the character with the most tools why are we complaining about this.