I thought this had to with reversal windows be super lenient. Also if you indeed do a safe jump you would not be getting srked, I believe your logic is flawed in this case, no?
Yeah, I think if you jump with out attacking there is no recovery and if you do an attack there’s like a 3 frame recovery.
Yes this is why empty jumps have trip guard, or so it seems.
If you empty jump there is a two landing frames where all you can do is block(or not if you so decide). If you attack there is two recovery frames.
Ah. Thanks for that.
right-o. 2 vs 2+2.
red i’m pretty sure you’re a masochist at this point. :lol: just stay outta this thread for the duration of the holidays, for your own mental well being. :bgrin:
I think That’s for the best. I’m gonna go finish my album. And sleep.
This post is kinda dumb I’ve been reading through this thread an its nothing but Ryu players trying to explain why ryu isn’t broken or damn near perfect. Ryu has no real flaws an im not saying ryu is a guaranteed win but he is a lot easier to win with than lets say viper, akuma, ken and so on. An the fact that he has so many ways to set up his ultra srk on jump in, srk fadc, ex fireball fadc, ex tatsu in corner, ex fireball in corner no cancel needed, and jumping mp I think i got all of them makes it even worst. he can always link his cr.mk into a fb and its no need for me to speak on the srk as we all know. Plus his has some of the easiest combos to pull off i mean how much skill does it take to do a 3 hit combo an half of the combos r the same combos ryu has had since the 90’s. An his fireball speed is also good an i dont need to speak on his super which is damn near a guarantee land if he hits u with damn near anything. An yea rufus has a lot of way sto set up his ultra as well but he doesn’t have a fireball to zone either. An at least Sagat is slow. Ryu walking speed is half decent so ur not gonna b able to run away the whole match. An again im not sayin he is just a guaranteed win but he is a very easy character to play which doesn’t require as much skill as over half the cast. An that don’t jump in or ryu is easier said that done because he is going to fireball u to death an keep alwaying towards you or dashing forward to get in like daigo does his famous poke fireball dash. An adventually he will get close an he hits like a truck and more than likely u will end up in the corner where he has even more options to land his ultra. So u r going to adventually jump. So all in all ryu is a beast an in my opinion only second to the king. An Im not some loser who just loses to every Ryu but he is a hard match up an im just stating the obvious all u seem to fight is ryu’s online. An let’s be real if he wasn’t as good as he is you wouldn’t fight half as many as you do an half the people that main him in SF4 wouldn’t. An can someone correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t daigo main ken is 3s since ken was top tier 1st or 2nd I wasn’t really into 32 but everytime i see a video with him he always seems to be playing a top tier character.
take a breath… I hope you are not dead…
so let s see
on 1 side we have players with 15 years experiences many knowledge about differnet sf , etc etc: ryu not borken
on the other side: people with no back ground that have never pleyed seriously any sf game in the past : Ryu broken
argument : if you jump ryu can shoryu…
argument 2 : if you link ryu can shoryu
argument 3 ryu have a good cr.mk
argument 4 : ryu have a FIREBALL
whateve capcom do with ssf4 people will complain for sur. complaining about sf4 version of ryu just show you never have deal with OP character( like kyo 95 terry 97 ssfx dalshim and claw)
Stop complain and start learning to deal with O P character,.
If ryu is one for you, you will have to face a lot of O P character in your “fighter” life
We all agree Ryu has easy combos/setups to ultra. Noted.
To the casual-intermediate non Ryu player, these “advantages” can be overwhelming.
If you are constantly getting hit by them, ask yourself, how is this happening?
I can assure you it’s your own impatient jumping, trouble teching throws or baited to eat ex Tatsu in the corner, your decision to chance a 1-frame link vs 2 stocks/ultra, thinking (for example) Bison 3 x cr.lk is a true blockstring.
Being outplayed in short.
Well… It’s not exactly a “safe” jump if you get DPed or trade hits… 
There are a lot of cases where I’m not being ‘outplayed’ where I still get ultra’d by Ryu, then again I play Rufus.
I sweep him, dash forward and do a crossup dive kick. His DP auto corrects, trades with my divekick, and then he can do ultra and I die.
Shit like that is pretty silly. That’s really all I care to see Ryu lose though. Everything else still isn’t the level of BS he, or any other character has in the older SF games.
ryu is this amazing because street fighter wouldn’t be street fighter without him, no close the thread
So why don t you stop doing dive kick on ryu when he have ultra after your sweep?
you are complaining because you don t have a free jump when a shoto wake up?
you are complaining because it trade?
You know that you are taking a risk, why do you take it?
instead of complaining about ryu you should work on your set up and find another okizem after your sweep. something safe for exemple…
Yet what exactly would be “safe”? Just asking, a crossup dive kick, a crossup, a meaty? The only thing to do there is attempt to bait a dp, that’s the only safe option, which certainly gives no benefit if the bait isn’t taken.
This is more of a point to the system itself, not ryu. You should be able to do something on ryu’s wakeup, at the very least auto correction should be modified.
I’ll bet that the majority of decent players of this game would disagree with you. Mashing DP is annoying, yes. But what about it is gamebreaking? You can’t mash out of a combo or blockstring unless your opponent dropped it or used a blockstring that wasn’t. FADCing a special is something everyone can do, and the fact that it’s a viable way to link an Ultra for some characters isn’t anything more than a way to tack on damage at the cost of all of one meter and half of another.
Well said.
You’re off on so much I don’t know where to start. Ken got shafted, but Akuma is as good as Ryu or better in every aspect except stamina and Ultra. A Viper and Rufus won SBO. Not Ryu, nor Sagat. Easier to learn, yes. Easier to win with, no.
AA LP SRK setup requires you do something stupid. SRK FADC costs 50% meter. EX Hado FADC costs 75% meter. EX Hado/EX Tatsu in corner requires you be cornered. Ryu needs to beat you out air to air with j.MP to land that setup.
Point being all Ryu’s setups are either costly or not difficult to avoid. The meterless ones practically require you to set yourself up to be Ultra’d.
Sagat can move almost the whole screen in an instant, while attacking. He’s not slow.
I’ve seen Zangiefs in G1 raping people online spamming lariat and tick throws. Online means nothing for character balance.
Ryu’s not top tier in ST. Daigo mained him then. It makes sense that Daigo switched in 3S. Parries made Ryu’s traditional playstyle absolutely worthless in that game.
As for this game, the mechanics that help Ryu (or turtling with him at least) should be tweaked IMO.
Auto-correct
Input leniency
Large reversal window
Along with trade Ultra, that’s about all that’s needed to make him easier to rush down.
Well, basic theories of balance. Ryu’s always been the standard all-around basic guy in the SF series. The term is “Jack of all trades, king of none.” Except that SF4 Ryu is king in many trades and at least good in the rest. If you don’t see how that gives him a distinct advantage over the rest of the cast that has to deal with challenges in some area…well, I’ll just say its willfully ignorant.
And wow, how many times must I explain to you guys that my comments aren’t based on personal desires? The fact that I even have to is ridiculous since I seem to be the one seeing this discussion from an objective point of view, whereas you Ryu players always revert back to some strawman invention in your head about me having a tough time beating Ryu. Yeah, I can use Ryu, as anyone with any fighting game experience should be able to. The simplicity combined with the effectiveness of his design ultimately means that at any level of play, the Ryu user has to think and execute less effectively than the majority of the rest of the roster.
Redrapper, the only thing I got out of your unnecessary, somewhat incorrect history lesson of a post is that you’re very defensive about playing Ryu and apparently too shortsighted to engage this conversation on any level beyond the basic. Put your biases aside for a minute, take a break on fabricating backstories of my personal life, and for a moment just think like a developer. Imagine you were working on Super and were assigned the task of rebalancing the game. Wouldn’t you immediately look at the characters with a ton of positives and no negatives and say “Ok something went wrong here”? Granted, one way to even it out would be to give everyone “crazy stupid shit” as you described, but I don’t see how that’s a better solution than the alternative and it doesn’t seem like the direction the devs wanted to go with the game. SF2 and SF4 are different games. 4 has more mechanics and thus more ways to create unique gameplay designs and qualities, which I think is certainly a GOOD thing. Damage output is also very different. Part of the reason HF was pretty balanced was because most have something arguably dumb to end the round pretty quickly. If that’s what you want Super to become, another game of whoever guesses right twice wins the round, that’s one way to go…Just not the way I would. Same goes for arguing to change the game mechanics that benefit advantaged characters rather than the characters’ attributes themselves. I think that would be the ideal solution, actually, but again, my comments are made with the established game mechanics in mind and it doesn’t seem too likely that they’ll change much based on everything we’ve seen/heard so far. Mashed srk ultra isn’t as crazy as tons of shit in past games, but in the context of SF4 where most characters don’t have anything comparable, its def a game-changer. Obviously don’t remove srkxxultra but logic dictates that, relative to how the rest of the cast are designed, there should be something to balance out the game-changer, rather than just more advantages.
so why don t you junmp with safe jump timing and then:
if ryu have 2 ex don t press any button and as soon a you touch the ground do back plus throw. if ryu player shoryu you will be on guard if he doesnt throw you will throw him
then if ryu player have ultra but ni ex same strategie plus as soon as you touh the ground you do an ex messiah sometime( to counter is shoryu or is throw /un throw tentative once he knows uyou like to do this)
if ryu have no 2 ex or ultra barre then safe jump timing and you can hit him as he will be afraid of using shoryu .
this is nearly all safe and the only moment you uuse not safe bet is when ryu can t HURT you.
I play a lot again kiriusto one of the best rufus in japan, rufus defenetly have tool to work on this match up.
this is not a match up thread. and just as i said, many people complain instead of looking for solutions.
I could be wrong here, but won’t that just make you eat the shoryuken? If he throws, you’ll tech it, but if he doesn’t throw you’ll do a jab straight into his invincible frames. Sounds like a great way to eat an Ultra.
You are wrong. Only a delayed shoryu will break the back throw.
A reversal shoryu will let you in guard.
You just to work on your timing and you will protect from the reversal shoryu and throw/unthrow ryu as soon as he wakes up.
And safe jump(empty without air attack) ex messiah will beat all wake up from ryu. He can only guard anx ex shoryu( that will do super cheap damage)
Once you make understand ryu player that if he move he will eat ex messiah then you can start your pressuring game.
It s all about momentum.