I’ve certainly seen more awesome comebacks in 3rd strike, it’s a much more entertaining game to watch. But the only low tier specialist I can think of is Kuroda, but he’s just excellent at the game in general.
I’m a fan of Hayao, personally.
On the subject of frame data: it’s not something I pay much attention to, either. I just don’t think you need to know hard numbers. It’s there for the people who want it, but you don’t need to know the numbers to win.
IMHO (noob opinion):
Knowing what beats what in every match is a lot more important than knowing that a move comes out in X frames. Same goes for knowing at what distances moves are safe and unsafe.
At the end of the day, that is what you are using frame data for anyway…to learn things like “oh this move is safe from X distance” or “if this thing is blocked, he can punish it with X from any range” or “His standing strong beats my standing forward every time up close”.
From what I understand the top players know all of these details but not necessarily in terms of raw frame data.
Example: You think Andre knows the frame data on bison’s heavy kick slide? Sure maybe he does…but more importantly, he knows the exact distances where it is safe and not safe on block.
Same for Sanford’s Cammy…he may or may not know the exact frame data on her spiral arrow, but you can bet your ass he knows the exact distances where they are safe and where they are not.
The frame data is just a means to an end…lets not forget that.
I could read and study and realize that Ryu’s jab dp comes out in three frames, then compare that data to the data on all of chun’s pokes. I would realize that I can’t poke him out of it on startup, and he can stuff any of my pokes with his jab dp if we do them close to the same time.
OR…if I just play that match a lot, I’m going to learn exactly the same thing through trial and error. No frame math needed. I learned the same thing, but through a different method.
dude don’t even try and spin this :
- Aren’t these just more exceptions ? It didn’t look like you knew the matchup, I suspect that is the only reason these exceptions happen, in the long run they don’t mean shit.
You are qualifying your excuse right here!!!
- **Isn’t an advantage based on game mechanics, the toolset of the character & frame data (priority/recovery) significant in the long term, not the player **?
Considering the context of the whole…This is entrapment and you know it!! You’re forming an opinion in the form of a question to give you multiple ways of answering the rebutle. Considering your last statement Your reply is dissapointing.. This is a blatant attempt to discredit mr. Alex Valle. And don’t be like ‘no’, you knew exactly what you were doing. There is a word for this, when that reporter was saying “George Bush, the greatest president ever?”. Can’t think of it now.
- You play Ryu, Your one of the best & most respected players in the USA & you’re telling us that Ryu doesn’t have any kind of advantage over most of the cast…for real ?
And the nail in the coffin.
hence:
I don’t claim to know your mind, but considering, the topic at hand, the format of your questions, and your response I am positive you are trolling.
no they dont complain, they switched mains
example: diago sf3, edma sf4 etc
do you guys think the QCF+roundhouse will make a comeback from 3s?
“I suck at guessing and get hit easily into big damage!”
…Well, then stop playing SF.
On a semi-related note. Andre does not look at frame data. At least he didn’t before seasons beatings.
lol @ the trolling
Anyways, you can disagree or find my post dissapointing it doesn’t really matter.
What does matter is whatever I’m doing is working and has for over 15+ years.
One of the most valuable things I’ve learned coming up, like many of you are, the top players will prevent you from landing anything with simple fundamentals.
They know the ranges first to keep away all the “frame trapping shenanigans”.
They know their character moves by feel off the bat from playing footsies.
They are specialists with a simple moveset and will exploit your impatient play.
This is why I don’t believe in rankings.
They choose characters to fit their style and win with them.
FACT.
In the end, really, there is always going to be characters who just “got everything for everyone”. Sagat and ryu are 2 of them. That’s the damn honest truth. Others are stronger in some areas, sure, because thats their specialty. Ryu will always be an all around character no matter what. Alex valle may say people will find weaknesses in the ryu matchup but hell, they would be hard pressed to open it up. i rarely see zangiefs and abels and hondas or gens hit the jackpot championship because the have flaws that are exploitable to a point. It really boils down to who the player is, the character they use, and HOW they take advantage of said characters strength and weakness. This is purely my opinion, but if the top players in the world main ryus or sagats, then those characters must HAVE something that makes them stand out compared to the rest of the cast. Agree? Disagree? Be polite and keep it civil.
Hey I have an idea. Lets bring up ridiculous shit that character X has in the aspect of ultras, and maybe we’ll all forget about how ridiculous the Ryu is in the same aspect. Good idea, right? Also, lets forget about the fact that Ryu has other amazing aspects of his game that make him superior to character X as a whole.
Or, here’s another idea. Lets actually not deflect the criticism by pointing to ridiculous shit that character X has and actually address the criticisms about Ryu directly.
For real though, I’m done here. I don’t want to come across as bitching and this whole argument will go no where. It’s just a chance for trolls to come out and try to piss people off.
Incorrect,
People get better with their desired character and find ways to beat you.
It’s up to the individual to find the desire to do so.
Some can’t handle it and pick other characters to do it. (what you are describing)
Gief - Jan,Ultradavid does very well
Gen - yeb,jibbo,rashaan does very well
Honda - Mike Ross does exciting things
Abel - Combofiend,Wong,Rico,etc does very well
Think about it, they play these characters because they fit whatever style that worked.
When SF4 came out, you can’t keep using the old “well these guys are established players” excuse.
They learn with their peers and win with the FIRE. (aka whatever fun those characters give them)
How could you say Mike Ross does exciting things with Honda? When he gets beat he goes to Sagat. He doesn’t trust Honda, and that’s why he’s a weak player.
I don’t see why a Ryu main would have trouble or would be ashamed of admitting that Ryu is a great character. It’s like people feel this need to downplay whatever character they main so that they look better when they win.
I main Ryu, sure I suck at the game but I love the game and watch tons of matches, I’m surely not afraid to admit Ryu is an awesome character and really has alot going for him.
I don’t think he’s OP or anything, but I’m not going to defend him by stating that other characters are better than him and consequentially I’m a much better Ryu player if I can beat character X (may that be Rufus, Sagat, whoever you’re complaining about).
He’s good, well rounded, has tons of options… Is it that hard to admit it? No game will be 100% balanced, I’m sure SSF4 will give other characters more of the options that they need.
This is mostly in reference to the Rufus complainers, not Mr. Valle’s stance or working over character advantages, which I have to agree with. Ryu is very far from unbeateable, just like most characters in the game.
YOU MUST HAVE FAYTH IN UR CHARCTERZ, CUZ REAL LYFE IS YUGIMONZ
nigga please
He goes to Sagat and loses too. (not his style)
He wants to play to win but he doesn’t have the mental strength to stay on his main character.
This is the result when you don’t grind to the heart and soul of your desired character.
No wonder Daigo dominates in SF4 US, he plays everyone excluding Ryu.
Since we aren’t on topic anyways. 
Do you still use ken in HDR?
Yea, cus Daigo totally sucks at fighting games without Ryu in them 
Valle, thanks for taking the time to post in here and put up with the trolls. Believe it or not, there are actually a lot of people who respect and learn from the opinions of the top players who still post on SRK.
No dickriding intended here, just calling it like I see it.