Ryu changes in SSFIV thread

[parabellum]

It also affords you more opportunities to abuse EX Messiah Kick, or, if your opponent has a jump-in fetish, EX Snake Strike, which does about 75% of the damage that Ryu’s ultra does. For one EX stock :rolleyes:.

You will be glad to know that its been announced that EX SS is getting nerfed in SSF4.

S-Kill said that it was actually a GLITCH that caused the move to do 280 damage instead of 180, one that somehow got missed in loc tests.

I am not sad to hear this. I have said I don’t want nerfs, but if it was actually a bug in the first place, then its a nerf that is somewhat fair.

[System_1]

i smell a troll @wangyu

^^ Because ?

[Vaarp]

sorry but yes way.

Oh yeah, Sakura is perfectly balanced, just an example.

[System_1]

Yeah, I guess I forgot that Falcon Kick cross up -> Target Combo xx Space Opera Symphony is miles harder than c.MK xx Shoryuken xx FADC xx Metsu Hadoken. How silly of me. It’s also harder to hit confirm and easier to accidentally burn meter with, isn’t it? Oh, shit…wait a second.

Neither is excessively difficult, but majority of the posters here would have people believe that Rufus’s setups are rocket science while Ryu’s are brain dead easy. Rufus’s primary setup is at least meterless, and, therefore, usable whenever an opening presents itself and you have ultra meter, whereas Ryu’s requires, y’know, an opening, ultra meter, and half a super meter. It also affords you more opportunities to abuse EX Messiah Kick, or, if your opponent has a jump-in fetish, EX Snake Strike, which does about 75% of the damage that Ryu’s ultra does. For one EX stock :rolleyes:.

Anyway, the point I’m trying to prove is that most of the lower tier characters need to be buffed, and upper tier characters could use some minor tweaks, but no one needs any significant nerfs.

lp.dp>Ultra would like a word with you, that’s without the trade. absolutely no meter used in either instance :nono:

[parabellum]

Oh yeah, Sakura is perfectly balanced, just an example.

Sakura is a fucking machine.

If you are struggling with her, its you not her.

She is a rushdown monster in the right hands. Between safe LK tatsu and her EX tatsu resets/mixups…she can absolutely murder fools.

Combine that with the fact that she has damn good pokes and you CANNOT jump at her…I see no reason to complain.

Take notes:

[media=youtube]vds6f5bdtbM&feature=related[/media]

lp.dp>Ultra would like a word with you, that’s without the trade. absolutely no meter used in either instance

You deserve to get hit with TWO ultras if you are dumb enough to jump at Ryu when he has ultra (not YOU, but whoever does that dumb shit).

Jumping at a shoto is beyond stupid unless its a safe jump.

[System_1]

You deserve to get hit with TWO ultras if you are dumb enough to jump at Ryu when he has ultra (not YOU, but whoever does that dumb shit).

Jumping at a shoto is beyond stupid unless its a safe jump.

Just pointing out the stupidity of this statement “Ryu’s requires, y’know, an opening, ultra meter, and half a super meter.” there were other examples but that is the most braindead one i could think of, obviously it’s not a good idea but it’s there

[highlulu]

lp.dp>Ultra would like a word with you, that’s without the trade. absolutely no meter used in either instance :nono:

except the lp dp into ultra of ryu’s is a setup that requires you to make a GIANT mistake for ryu to be able to do that while rufus can get into his target combo through pressure, ie he mixes you up like a bartender till you go to tech his throw only to eat a lk > hk target combo into ULTRA.

do you see the difference, in one setup you are DEE DEE DEE and jump at a ryu who has ultra and the ability to dp you, and on the other your on the ground against rufus and he throws you over and over until you realize that you eventually have to try and tech some and then as soon as you go for tech your being juggled into ultra.

edit: just saw your post… ok i see what you were doing, ignore this

[Vaarp]

Sakura is a fucking machine.

If you are struggling with her, its you not her.

She is a rushdown monster in the right hands. Between safe LK tatsu and her EX tatsu resets/mixups…she can absolutely murder fools.

Combine that with the fact that she has damn good pokes and you CANNOT jump at her…I see no reason to complain.

Take notes:

[media=youtube]vds6f5bdtbM&feature=related[/media]

I strongly disagree. I’ve been trying to actually play Sakura on a high level, and she’s totally unbalanced compared to other characters.

That video doesn’t tell me anything apart the Abel player has a hard time guessing with mindgames and blocking after a knockdown, because pretty much ALL the damage Sabre does is because of non forced errors of him, there’s a lot of combos, if not the vast majority, that could have been blocked easily because they all started by just jumping in.

The only thing Sakura has is that she can combo into her Ultra with just an EX meter bar, yeah that’s cool! But actually for doing that you have to connect an c.LP, c.HP, EX Arcing Hurricane Kick, Ultra… and there is where her problems starts… c.LP has a very short range, aswell as c.HP, so you have to be quite close to the opponent if you want to attempt the combo, and getting near is her main problem.

Her footsies are just horrible, take an example of Ryu, his c.MK has a LOT more range than her, so you can’t just expect to find a way in from here. You have to make your way in using focus dashes, and that’s easier said than done. Jump to Ryu, of course, is discarded, except maybe after a throw you may attempt a safe jump but the timing is insane if you don’t want to eat a reversal.

You can’t jump at her? Because of her c.HP? It requires strict timing, and if you screw it, you’re going to just eat a beautiful combo. There are characters that is easier to anti air with c.HP, as Abel, there are others that is difficult but actually possible for having a semi-consistent anti air, as Ryu, Ken or Sagat, and there are others that is almost impossible, as Blanka or Balrog.

Her pressure tools, ok… you can blockstring c.LP, c.HP, Light Arcing Hurricane Kick… and that’s it, you’re with +0 on block, and you can’t really expect to do nothing apart trying to focus or attempt a crossup or a Hard Light Arcing Hurricane Kick risking to trade hits, or even worse, eating a reversal.

Her mixups? It may work against some, but not really against people who knows what they’re doing, they will just dash back, best of cases, or you will either eat a reversal (again!)

Good pokes? her standing roundhouse has 10 startup frames… 10! Chun-Li got good pokes, not Sakura. Her overhead? 16 startup frames and it’s -3 on block and +2 on hit… her crouching roundhouse has poor range, is slow, and has -7 on block, so you can forget about safe jumping the opponent after a c.HK.

In resume, Sakura is a perfect character to punish missed moves or the opponent errors, but she has almost no way of generating damage if the opponent has a good defense, and good players have good defenses.

I can pretty much destroy every player that has a poor defense by tick throwing, safe jumping, focus dashing, but when you face a player that actually hit confirm his combos, that knows the concepts of footsies, zoning, tech throwing, knows the frame data of his char… you can really forget about making yourself a way in with Sak, it’s just too hard, and eventually they’ll find a way in inside your defense and you will lose.

[redrapper]

1. Aren’t these just more exceptions ? It didn’t look like you knew the matchup, I suspect that is the only reason these exceptions happen, in the long run they don’t mean shit.

2. Isn’t an advantage based on game mechanics, the toolset of the character & frame data (priority/recovery) significant in the long term, not the player ?

3. You play Ryu, Your one of the best & most respected players in the USA & you’re telling us that Ryu doesn’t have any kind of advantage over most of the cast…for real ?

1. No. They aren’t. You haven’t played Yeb before, nor Sabre.
2. NO. That’s the most ridiculous statement I ever heard. If that was the case then fighting games would rely on almost no skill of the actual player and all come down to game mechanics. Sagat would win every single tournament. This is the mentality which makes players lose tournaments.
3. He said that Ryu is about as good as he was in ST… which he is. In fact, maybe he’s not even as good. His fireballs aren’t nearly as scary and damaging and his other two SRK’s have lots of recovery. Not to mention his damage potential is way below a good number of the cast, according to the damage charts on eventhubs and other places. In ST one jump in combo from Ryu could possibly do over 40-60 percent in 3 hits, and that’s when there was no EX cancels or anything. In here, the highest he can really do is 30 percent at most from a combo without ultra, and even then a GOOD ryu isn’t going to damage scale his ultra that badly-- unless he wants to waste it, and have you gain an instant ultra to counteract.

[Coth_X]

1. No. They aren’t. You haven’t played Yeb before, nor Sabre.
2. NO. That’s the most ridiculous statement I ever heard. If that was the case then fighting games would rely on almost no skill of the actual player and all come down to game mechanics. Sagat would win every single tournament. This is the mentality which makes players lose tournaments.
3. He said that Ryu is about as good as he was in ST… which he is. In fact, maybe he’s not even as good. His fireballs aren’t nearly as scary and damaging and his other two SRK’s have lots of recovery. Not to mention his damage potential is way below a good number of the cast, according to the damage charts on eventhubs and other places. In ST one jump in combo from Ryu could possibly do over 40-60 percent in 3 hits, and that’s when there was no EX cancels or anything. In here, the highest he can really do is 30 percent at most from a combo without ultra, and even then a GOOD ryu isn’t going to damage scale his ultra that badly-- unless he wants to waste it, and have you gain an instant ultra to counteract.

Don’t compare damage in IV to damage in ST. Everyone could do 40%-60% off of 3hits in ST.

[CaliPower]

1. Aren’t these just more exceptions ? It didn’t look like you knew the matchup, I suspect that is the only reason these exceptions happen, in the long run they don’t mean shit.

2. Isn’t an advantage based on game mechanics, the toolset of the character & frame data (priority/recovery) significant in the long term, not the player ?

3. You play Ryu, Your one of the best & most respected players in the USA & you’re telling us that Ryu doesn’t have any kind of advantage over most of the cast…for real ?

1. I can name many more people if you like but this “exception” excuse is becoming a stupid never-ending trend.

2. Frame data, I don’t know the data to be honest (I play by feel). So when you wait for the true data, I’m already manipulating space (footsies/zoning)when you’re trying to trap me in it. You think Wong/Ricky/Watts/etc know about frame data? lol

3. I have a lot of experience vs Sabre’s Sakura actually. He outplayed me there where I looked like I didn’t know the match. Keep assuming I don’t know it and see what happens next time I guess =)

Back in the day, I thought Ryu had a lot of advantages in other games. The more I played, it’s my opponents that find new shit around it. Knowing very well those characters can’t do damage to me “on paper”. People got smarter is the point. Today, you have people like yourself that bitch and complain about what’s on paper first before trying to find shit against it.
(let me guess, you’re not complaining…)
(you’re just saying)
(chill out dood, relax…etc.)
(insert QQ here)

You ever see a top player complain on here about cheap shit?
No, they eventually beat it.

[DevilJin_01]

Sakura is an underwhelming character. She’s one of those characters that are useful when the right person is behind them but that’s it. Basically if you don’t let Sakura get in there’s not much to worry about. She isn’t much of a threat at all from a range and she’s free as hell if you knock her down especially with an untechable knockdown. With strong execution and reset mind games she can be similar to a 3S Makoto type working on gimmicks to deplete your lifebar quickly but due to the way the game works those tricks aren’t even as effective. So then you’re just left with a character with average normals and not much of a threat unless she is near point blank range and has meter. Even 3S Makoto was stronger from a range than Sakura.

She isn’t a shitty character since we are playing regular SFIV but I don’t see Sakura’s tools alone doing shit for her in the new game. She has clear weaknesses that will more than likely be addressed in Super. Right now if you turtle the shit out of Sakura she doesn’t have much to go on and I think that’s why characters like Sagat and Blanka who zone/turtle well IMO have a clear advantage over her. I think she could be definitely stronger than she is so hopefully Capcom doesn’t have too much restraint with her in Super.

[System_1]

1. I can name many more people if you like but this “exception” excuse is becoming a stupid never-ending trend.

2. Frame data, I don’t know the data to be honest (I play by feel). So when you wait for the true data, I’m already manipulating space (footsies/zoning)when you’re trying to trap me in it. You think Wong/Ricky/Watts/etc know about frame data? lol

3. I have a lot of experience vs Sabre’s Sakura actually. He outplayed me there where I looked like I didn’t know the match. Keep assuming I don’t know it and see what happens next time I guess =)

Back in the day, I thought Ryu had a lot of advantages in other games. The more I played, it’s my opponents that find new shit around it. Knowing very well those characters can’t do damage to me “on paper”. People got smarter is the point. Today, you have people like yourself that bitch and complain about what’s on paper first before trying to find shit against it.
(let me guess, you’re not complaining…)
(you’re just saying)
(chill out dood, relax…etc.)
(insert QQ here)

You ever see a top player complain on here about cheap shit?
No, they eventually beat it.

It’s funny all i did was ask you 3 questions & either you didn’t read my post or you didn’t understand it. The question marks should give away the fact that nothing i said was a complaint or a statement of fact I was just interested in your opinion.

Your reply is dissapointing.

[HatredInfinite]

lp.dp>Ultra would like a word with you, that’s without the trade. absolutely no meter used in either instance :nono:

It also requires your opponent to be begging for it harder than your prom date :wonder:.

Also, Rufus has air-to-air jumping HK -> ultra, which is essentially the same. Oh, wait, now you’re gonna come back with “Ryu has air-to-air jumping MP -> ultra”. Which, of course, is irrelevant because LP SRK -> ultra is a lot safer and nets you an extra 50 damage, while scaling your ultra by one less hit. Or just Daigo it and deep HP SRK right when they’re about to land and feed them a shit sandwich of FADC xx ultra.

Just pointing out the stupidity of this statement “Ryu’s requires, y’know, an opening, ultra meter, and half a super meter.” there were other examples but that is the most braindead one i could think of, obviously it’s not a good idea but it’s there

I was referring to Ryu’s PRIMARY setup versus Rufus’s PRIMARY setup. In all honesty, jab SRK -> ultra and jumping MP -> ultra are non-factors in even MID level play. Sure they’re there, but they don’t really count, because, well, see the first sentence in this post.

[Vaarp]

Sakura is an underwhelming character. She’s one of those characters that are useful when the right person is behind them but that’s it. Basically if you don’t let Sakura get in there’s not much to worry about. She isn’t much of a threat at all from a range and she’s free as hell if you knock her down especially with an untechable knockdown. With strong execution and reset mind games she can be similar to a 3S Makoto type working on gimmicks to deplete your lifebar quickly but due to the way the game works those tricks aren’t even as effective. So then you’re just left with a character with average normals and not much of a threat unless she is near point blank range and has meter. Even 3S Makoto was stronger from a range than Sakura.

She isn’t a shitty character since we are playing regular SFIV but I don’t see Sakura’s tools alone doing shit for her in the new game. She has clear weaknesses that will more than likely be addressed in Super. Right now if you turtle the shit out of Sakura she doesn’t have much to go on and I think that’s why characters like Sagat and Blanka who zone/turtle well IMO have a clear advantage over her. I think she could be definitely stronger than she is so hopefully Capcom doesn’t have too much restraint with her in Super.

That’s it, she’s unbalanced. Anyway I’m not going to talk more about Sakura in the Ryu’s thread, I feel bad about it Sorry Ryu players!

[RawwStewage]

2. Frame data, I don’t know the data to be honest (I play by feel). So when you wait for the true data, I’m already manipulating space (footsies/zoning)when you’re trying to trap me in it. You think Wong/Ricky/Watts/etc know about frame data? lol

no offense man, but not every character has the ability to sit back and not know the frame data, especially when learning new matchups.

[Vaarp]

2. Frame data, I don’t know the data to be honest (I play by feel). So when you wait for the true data, I’m already manipulating space (footsies/zoning)when you’re trying to trap me in it. You think Wong/Ricky/Watts/etc know about frame data? lol

You can be absolutely sure they perfectly know the frame data of his main char, and most likely have great awareness of the other ones.

[Stay_Crispy]

You can be absolutely sure they perfectly know the frame data of his main char, and most likely have great awareness of the other ones.

Do you not realize that that’s Alex Valle you’re talking to? I’m pretty sure he has a better idea of what those guys know than you do.

no offense man, but not every character has the ability to sit back and not know the frame data, especially when learning new matchups.

You don’t NEED to know the frames to know what works and what doesn’t work.

[Vaarp]

Do you not realize that that’s Alex Valle you’re talking to? I’m pretty sure he has a better idea of what those guys know than you do.

I know who he is, and how awesome he is, but sill I’m pretty sure they know their frames data :tup:

[polarity]

More competitive as in there were more options, more interesting ways to get around the other player. 3rd strike was more balanced whether you like it or not. Parries let weaker characters fight the yuns and chuns of the world with a fair chance of winning if they had the skill. There’s no dominant Sakura players in SF4, but people win with lower-mid tier characters all the time in 3rd strike because they predict their opponents and out think them.

A lot of the time SF4 comes down to who holds down their gameplan the longest and has the strongest combo built into their character. 3rd strike was more dynamic.

I’m not complaining about the characters in SF4, I play Fei and I think Ryu and Akuma and Sagat are perfectly fine the way they are. I just think that the overall 3rd strike system provided for more opportunities for players to do their own thing. Hopefully Capcom expands on the current system in the upcoming iterations, though.

3rd Strike low-tier specialists who actually place high in tournaments come from Japan almost exclusively, where the game is played with teams. It’s not really fair to compare to SF4. Lol @ the “parries make it balanced” argument, I thought that had been thoroughly exposed as nonsense by now.

Lol calm down. No fighting game with character variety can ever be 100% balanced and 4 is already pretty well balanced (especially considering that its the first iteration of the new series) but why wouldn’t you want to take a look at some of the things that give characters larger advantages or weaknesses and tweak things to balance them out? Instead you seem oddly hellbent on accepting things as “good enough.”

Because the attitude of you and whiners like you is bad for the scene. It’s amazing how big bitches all the new people that have come into the scene after SF4 are. Used to be you either played the game and accepted it was good enough, and hoped for improvement in the next version or you thought it sucked and didn’t play. All these new guys play and then whine constantly anyway. You don’t need to think a game is perfect to just shut the fuck up and enjoy it for what it is. Just people trying to make excuses for losing…