I feel like SRK members are sheltered and far more gullible than the average message board community. Thoughts?
Clearly. It’s like people have never seen a troll before.
LP SRK as a poke gets people killed. Free damage/combo on block or whiff in just about every situation it’s ever used. So really, big deal. It’s a risk to just throw LP SRK out there, you can hit confirm into HP SRK, which can be canceled into Super anyway.
Like most complaints I’ve seen about the SRK, you don’t have to like it, but there’s nothing particularly OP about it. Why would you ever use SRK as a hit confirm? Why should you expect to be able to hit someone low when they SRK? It’s a Shoryuken, you’re not supposed to be able to stuff it with lows.
I think the reason people would complain about Sagat’s jumping strong before an SRK is that SRK is actually toned down, compared to any SF other than 3. Usually the move is nigh invincible, and until parrying made that unnecessary, it was a major sticking point of the move. You risk the punish on recovery for a quick AA/GTFO me move that’s invincible on startup and most of the active frames. A jumping strong is just an aerial normal, why should it have the priority and hitbox to damn near remove the liability attached to jumping in? Plus, unlike SRK, it doesn’t have that big punish window on block or whiff.
And in this game, with it’s variable wakeup and moves that have I. Frames on startup (mostly EX moves and backdash), how is throwing an LP SRK out on okizeme and timing it about 17 frames before they finish their wakeup animation viable? Seriously. And backdashing it, punishable on reaction? after the 10 recovery frames and the distance you put between yourself and Ryu, it’s not like Ryu can really punish that with much. Unless your backdash sucks, seems pretty improbable.
And if that’s so viable and OP, why doesn’t just about any high level Ryu player use it? Sounds like Theory Fighter to me. But even so, how would reducing the active frames to 10 remove this problem? I don’t think you were asking for the move to recover any faster, and even with 10 active frames, you could do the same thing on a meaty okizeme. So what purpose would it serve other than to make Ryu’s LP SRK just not hit for 4 frames of it’s rising animation, and give you almost as big a punish window on normally blocking it as his Ultra? All I see is making an already unsafe move an open invitation.
To be perfectly honest, I don’t think any of these nerfs are going to happen for the most part. Especially considering Seth has already stated that they’re taking the approach of making everyone better, and that the majority of high level players see no problems, and suggest no changes to Ryu.
That said, what new stuff do you think he’ll be getting, and how do you think it will work? Metsu SRK is obvious, of course.
I’d like to see if you guys can discuss anything about SSFIV Ryu other than complaints about him in SFIV.
your stupid that what i think. please dont post anymore ideas you make my head hurt.
Hey that is fair. Maybe I was better off saying “its not unbeatable” instead of “quite punishable” looking back, that was a poor choice of words.
:china:
This thread could use a cleanup, starting with the first post.
Especially considering people are still falling for a 2 month old troll, lol.
Do you know where the quote button is? Well anyways, what am I willing to lose in what context? I’ve already stated trade ultra and early dp ultra should go. I could deal with losing Ex tatsu ultra AND ex fireball ultra in place of getting Mule kick.
It wouldn’t make much of a difference in his game overall, but why not keep them? If you’re confirmed into a corner combo you’re caught by EX -> Ultra anyway, only difference at that point is damage and flash. I can’t imagine EX Mule kick -> Ultra doing less than EX Hado -> Ultra, and Mule Kick to Ultra will probably be a mid or full screen combo.
I think Joudan Sokuto Geri should scale as 2 hits instead of 1, and depending on how easy it is to juggle of an EX wall bounce and from what range, possibly cost 50% meter.
Well just like you said, it wouldn’t effect his game that much. I’m not much into the Safe Hail Mary xx ultra attempts myself, so I don’t mind seeing ex hurri/hado xx ultra go. Mule kick requires execution because the mule kick itself is not safe (in 3s, nothing else to base it off of). I hope they wouldn’t scale the mule kick option TOO much, keep it as a viable ultra set up.
J.mp (jumping situational)
Upper FADC (AA of choice)
Ex Mule (Hitco and mid - full screen option)
GREEDY REQUEST: Can I get that alpha 3 b+rh and the hop kick too? :bgrin:
Ryu changes:
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Nerf him By buffing him. Improve the invincibility of all SRK’s, making it less likely to trade.
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Increase recovery of LP SRK, making it easier to punish and LP SRK Ultra less practical
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Give EX SRK 2 hit juggle property. As opposed to the 1 it has now. (with increased invulnerabiliy on regular SRKs, why do an EX?)
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Fake Fireball. (QCF+LK)
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Mule Kick (DP+K), EX wall bounces. Takes at least 17 frames to start up, so only fierces and counter hit mediums can combo into it.
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Reduce hit stun on C.MP to +4. This will remove most of the natural links from it unless on counter hit.
EDIT
Agreed on Hopkick and Axekick.
EX and LK Mule Kick was comboable. If he keeps his c.LP -> c.HP link, that’d make EX Mule Kick -> Ultra hit confirmable. I dunno, I like Ryu’s stylish and flashy ultra setups in this game, and with the low damage plus the scaling on hit confirms to ultra, it’s not like the large amount of setups is an unfair tradeoff. That’s the best part about his Ultra, lol.
Basically, my stance is that Ryu needs little to nothing taken away. If everyone is to receive improvements, Ryu is not so far ahead that he should be the only character taking a step backwards. Give the lower tiers great and useful improvements, I can think of plenty. Just give Ryu less. Mule kick and Metsu SRK is plenty. Make it so that Mule kick is a nice combo ender for big damage and good spacing, and EX is a viable setup for combos at any range, at the cost of harsher scaling on the damage.
Metsu SRK can be his big damage, low setups Ultra. Maybe make it so EX Kick is the only setup it has outside of FA, and both of those options pare the damage down considerably to balance it.
Take away global things that help Ryu and everyone else with moves like his: Take away SRK trades, Make reversals 3 frames, get rid of auto block, tighten input leniency. And there you have it. Ryu’s still a great character, still balanced in all areas, still not overpowered.
Do you know where the quote button is?
Just like your “negative” changes to balance ryu getting even more powerful, nobody really cares. Tell me why trade ultra really matters again? Neither of those ultra setups really matter either unless you’re just counting the stupid amounts of ultra setups there are. Why not fix something that actually makes him really strong, that probably shouldn’t have existed in the first place?
That’s what balance is. It’s like a sagat player saying that sagat should have his speed improved and as a “balance” change they’ll add a frame of recovery to tiger knee.
I mean seriously, that’s all that you think is wrong?
As usual you need to read the post you were responding to and understand it before you respond. None of the shit you’re talking about is even a factor and i already explained why. It sucks having to rely on people who don’t main ryu to be honest about what’s wrong, and then the army of ryu mains twists their arguments to make it sound like the complaint is something completely different
Nitro: I guess thats why we disagree. I don’t mind losing things from the current Ryu. C.mp xx sk mule isnt that bad , knockdown similar to hurricane and c.fp xx rh or ex mule isnt that bad either, there is a risk you would miss the link and be punished after the mule. There is no punishing a ex hurri/hado really. I guess its one of those play style things, I prefer high risk, high reward. I see where you are coming from though. Safer players definitely aren’t feeling changes I’m talking about.
9andsomechange: You really be some troll shit so, this is last time Ill respond to you unless you are trying to really explain where you are going. The strawman shit aint cutting it. How is ryu losing 100% safe, hit confirmable ultra set-ups insignifigant? How would he get MORE powerful from losing some of his BEST set ups into ultra (low risk, high reward)? Early jab xx ultra? Almost always on reaction to a jump UP, aka ON THE WAY UP. MAYBE BEFORE THE OPPONENT EVEN DECIDED WHAT JUMP ATTACK THEY WERE GOING TO DO. c.mk xx ex hurri/hado, which are FURTHER hitco-able with lights (which are mostly safe) before hand and leave you + or even on block. Trade upper isn’t strong? A basically free ultra (minus very little life) isn’t a HUGE plus to lose? There are characters that PRETTY MUCH aren’t going to hit their ultra without a. a hail mary fa or b. 50% of their meter. Ryu has options that are 100% free.
I JOKINGLY asked for hop kick and axe kick. Jokes. Internet. 
. What are you talking about “stuff that shouldn’t exist?” There isnt much that isnt in any of his other apperances as of right now. Now, if you aren’t going to reply like you have some sense, don’t bother taking up MORE space in this thread with bullshit.
You really be some troll shit so, this is last time Ill respond to you unless you are trying to really explain where you are going.
I really wish you people would stop trying to take the easy way out of every argument. What strawman? I guess this is a time to quote someone else who made posts that you guys were scared of, since you can’t call him a troll based on registering in 09 or having red rep. Trade ultra,ex hurricane and ex hado are some of his best setups? What the fuck ever.
There ya go, i quoted, so clearly that must be valid. Fuck you can go so many games without even seeing trade ultra i can’t believe someone would argue it’s such an awesome tool, but you’re also arguing that he should get more tools, like the OP who everyone recognized as a troll.
shrugs
Totally off topic, but I can reliably standing fierce it. The problem is more that standing fierce doesn’t work particularly well against his other jump ins.
LOL! Ok really last post, going to find other peoples post’s to represent your ideas (or lack thereof) is funny. So, anyways. No one is calling you out for being 09 or having red rep, just calling an ace, an ace. Just explain your ideas of why ryu is overpowered instead of stating things in the form of random bitching. Not only does it NOT contribute to the conversation, it hurts my brain lol.
You still didn’t explain how FREE ultra and SAFE ultra set ups aren’t his some of his best ones. Ill be waiting until you do. YOU. Not hiding behind someone else’s post. Addressing that actual post, I agree run away hurricane is dumb. I agree that having to block a hurricane for YOU to be mixed up afterwards is also dumb, Ryu has good pokes this game. He had good pokes in most sf’s. Tip of c.mk xx hado combo on HIT (most can reversal inbetween on block for varied success) is silly. The hit-co from light attacks reduces the damage FURTHER in a combo, that seems like a negligble problem, imo. The super hitco from jab upper is ALSO negligable because if it was removed all that would happen is that people hit co, upper xx super with a cancel instantly and just as hitcoable minus from wake up situations. I am a advocate of FADC on hit only. And everyone can’t think of EVERY SINGLE ISSUE IN SF4 AND PUT IT INTO A SINGLE POST. If that’s what you want to see, give it up.
But the real issue is that MOST of us in here don’t want Ryu to be useless. That seems like your problem. You will probably always have this issue cause Ryu doesn’t suck like ever. Have fun playing against him guy. 
ust explain your ideas of why ryu is overpowered
I already did, but overpowered may be a strong word. He’s just way too good at every aspect of the game that i can think of right now, and there are small changes they REALLY need to address before they give him anything else. Hey if you and all the guys who sound like you didn’t look for excuses rather than confronting an argument head on, i wouldn’t have to quote other people to expose the cowardice. Fix that problem before you cry about retaliation for that
You still didn’t explain how FREE ultra and SAFE ultra set ups aren’t his some of his best ones. Ill be waiting until you do.
What’s any of that compared to what he can do with FADC, basically the best get out of jail free card in the game. If you take away your three setups he still has free and safe ultra setups, and all of them you’re likely to see more, aside from EX hurricane to ultra.
If you don’t want me to quote other people that you have trouble debasing, why don’t you stop hiding?(omg you didnt use the quote button etc). If you think that ryu’s hk hurrican is stupid why wasn’t that mentioned as a minus? Mk hurricane could stay at -2 and hk could be moved to -4 on block. EX hurricane could be -6 on block since it’s an ultra setup that already does that much damage.
FADC on hit only screws over everyone who’s not sagat or ryu in this game. SRK should trade startup frames with ken and recovery frames with akuma. Crouch medium should be even on block, cr mk hitbox should be raised so it doesn’t mysteriously duck under certain moves. Some of those 3 frame startup normals need to be taken away, you can choose which if you know about them. Ryu’s sweep could have an extra frame of startup so it can’t be combo’d off of for free.
Does that make ryu useless? More likely it just brings ryu closer to ken and balances them the way they were in other games(assuming you played those). The real issue here is that most of you want ryu to be even better than he is, and you’re either blatantly dishonest or blatantly ignorant as to how good he already is(getting alot of kens traditional strengths in addition to having his own). Have fun playing regular ryu, i’ll definitely have fun playing against him.
Not even from an antagonistic standpoint, or calling you a troll, or anything like that, what shouldn’t have existed in the first place?
Considering they gave SRK juggle properties to begin with, and gave Ryu’s EX moves the ability to follow up that juggle, I’d say Jab DP -> Ultra/Super/EX Hado and SRK -> FADC -> Ultra/EX Hado were quite intended.
And you haven’t explained why the things that make his strong need to be fixed anyway. Nobody who plays Ryu is going to go into a discussion about changing him with the mindset of “Ryu should be a shit character so I can get more respect when I win with him”. “Ryu should be made worse than half the cast or more so that people have an easy way to beat him”.
Get real. The tournaments speak for themselves. Just about any good player at this game can tell you. The tier lists point it out. Ryu’s good, but he’s not OP, he’s top tier, not God tier, and the game as a whole is pretty well balanced.
I’m perfectly fine with Ryu being a good character. I don’t want him to be broken or overpowered, so that it’s more like my victories were based on my character as opposed to my own skill. I want him to have fair matchups across the board, because that’s what being balanced against the rest of the cast is.
As for the post you quoted, who’s afraid of that?
-First of all, SRK isn’t invincible in this game. Second, Invincible AA not juggling? See: SFA3. Also, you can only juggle airborne opponents with it, and HP SRK deep does comparable damage. Why jump in on Ryu in the first place?
-You can duck all ground Tatsu except EX on reaction and punish clean. The LK is the hardest to do that with, but it also leaves Ryu at a disadvantage on block.
-Some of the best pokes in the game: So? cr.MK is always good. Never been a problem before. cr.MP isn’t anywhere near as good a poke. Instead of asking why Ryu has a couple really good pokes, why aren’t you asking why your character doesn’t have good pokes, if s/he doesn’t?
-DP range I’ll give you. I’ve already stated that that should probably have less horizontal range. Hell, one of my original recommended changes was that it be reduced to 2-3 jab range as opposed to 3-4.
-FADC on block costs meter. 50% meter. How is that free?
-Reversal window and easy motions should be changed, but that’s not a problem with Ryu.
-There’s no reason the Shinkuu Hadoken should be at all bad. It’s fast, it’s comboable… it’s Ryu’s super fireball. What do you expect?
-j.HK? Who do you play with that you can’t beat this normal? What, God forbid Ryu have decent air normals? Sagat’s jumping strong that move is not.
I couldn’t care less that you have a problem with the matchup. Ryu has good tools, and not one of them is impossible to deal with or work around. Not anywhere in this thread have I seen a complaint that was something that was honestly unreasonable to expect to have to deal with.
Closest things being Trade DP -> Free juggle, and linking into sweep.
Why? Because being rewarded for trading hits is unfair. Because being able to link a sweep and KD off of 3 frame normals in SF is unfair.
What’s unfair about having a few 3 frame normals? A good Super? Since when was having pretty basic shit like a good DP and decent links overpowered? Why is it such a big deal that Ryu is a good character?
The only reason I’d say give Ryu another tool is because it’s already been established that everyone is getting new tools. So I’m only trying to discuss what those should be. Why does toning down a solid character have to come with that, as opposed to simply fixing things about the game engine and moving on?
There is a God.
LOL @ don’t jump at Ryu comments.
I mean, Sagat’s balanced if you don’t jump-in on him. He can’t do his TU trade into Ultra, or the f.hk into Ultra.
Unless you can win without jumping, you’re going to eat that DP into Ultra for a while.
Ryu’s a perfectly good character. I don’t want to see drastic changes on him. Trade DP xx Ultra is fine. AA DP xx Ultra is fine. Other characters being completely shit and having a bad Ultra to boot is not fine.
I would rather see a buff to Honda and Vega than a nerf to Ryu. Give them more tools to win and Ryu won’t be such a problem.
Ryu is balanced in the sense that he does not have retarded bullshit like Rufus divekick, Akuma demon flip, Sagat Tiger Knee spam which absolutely wrecks games for certain characters. cr.MK xx Hadoken is good, but it isn’t the end of the world.