So you want to make a top 3 character even better?
his startup time for the dragon punch makes up for his recovery time…
regular move invulnerability? why would you want to not be able to trade? if your a ryu guru then you should know how many ultras or supers you can land off a traded DP vs jump kick…
3)…again, trying to make him ridiculous
4)less recovery on sweep? just use cr. mk dude…
5)very few characters have good anti-cross up… ex: sim’s b. mp is decent but him lacks in so many areas that ryu excels
6)so you want each fire ball to take ~140 hit points? seriously? dude you are getting ridiculous.
7)they are adding air supers/ultras
8)no it isn’t dump that they have different priority… if you want to use a move with higher priority then you are gonna have to eat some punishment if you miss…
it sounds like you want to stand back and through fireballs and spam DP’s all day.
you are asking way to much man… your trying to make him god tier
Yeah I feel ya. But in other parts of my post I also pointed out how he has “weaknesses” when directly compared to some of the other characters. That is in a simple move to move sort of way.
If we were foolish enough to try and compare them in more depth we would be opening up the board to threads that last for dozens of pages all full of poorly thought out opinions and obvious trolling interspersed here and there with well thought out and interesting debate
In ST/HDR ryu is slower than ken, and is without a doubt 2nd best zoner in the game under sagat. His srks recover slower, so he can’t srk pressure like ken. His rush punch’s hitting frames aren’t that good so you have to be close. His lk tatsu is very hard to react to, and his flame hadoken knocks an opponent to the other side of the screen. He really was a zoner, but he did have the abiltity to do something like j.hk crossup, st.hp xx flame hadoken for like 50%. He could dizzy with that combo if he used super.
That being said, even as far back as ST/HDR, ken is suppose to be faster than ryu, he has better close range offense, and st.hk that pokes instead of AA. kneebash that doesn’t knockdown. Fast lp srks.
What happened to ken in IV is a trajedy, using 3s ken instead of ST ken, especially since ryu and chun are closer to their ST counterparts.
@9272 Alot of people disagree with you, maybe there is something you are missing. Most of the time when that many people agree on something, its usually correct.
“Don’t nerf Ryu and Sagat, just bring everyone else up”
And I respect your comments saying that we shouldn’t be asking for a Ryu nerf because he has such an advantage against X character that we use, that we should instead be asking for X character to get a buff.
However, I changed my tune a little bit. Over and over in many threads I see good players (players much better than me) complain about how defense oriented SFIV is and about how it leads to turtling and boring playing. The requests to ‘bring back offense’ is one of the most common things I read.
And I would like to submit the idea that one of the biggest contributors to this game being a ‘turtle fest’ is ridiculously good reversals like DP’s leading to Ultra. Also, an even greater contributor is safe DP’s. (DP FADC.)
So therefore, nerfing that ability could contribute to a more offense oriented game. Case in point: You play more offensively versus Vega than you do Sagat, right?
Of course, Ryu isn’t the only one guilty, a lot of other characters have reversals that can lead to Ultra.
Anyways, that’s my two cents as to why I left the “Don’t nerf anyone, just buff low to mid tier characters crowd.”
Oh yeah, and I still firmly believe SRK trade to Ultra has to go.
But overall I appreciate your opinions and thanks for spending the time to read my ideas and consider them.
But again, that’s a very general weakness that all characters have when compared to other characters.
Saying that Ryu is slower and has less control of the screen than Akuma has is correct. But that isn’t a weakness in Ryu, that’s a weakness in that match-up. The very same can be said about Guile VS Akuma. Comparing two characters will always yield a set of strengths and weaknesses between the two, that’s what defines match-up ratios.
Since Guile is being thrown around here like a rag doll: Guile really can’t handle crossups much. His game has a big emphasis on keeping people out of the air, in front of you, and pushed into a corner. Avoiding knockdowns like the plague.
^ Ryu doesn’t have something like that is all people are saying.
Even though this is true, it has nothing to do with balance. Turtling and rush-down are different play styles. One isn’t inherently overpowered. That’s like saying Dhalsim and Guile are automatically broken because they play defensively and try to keep you out, which I’m sure we all agree they are not broken by any possible stretch.
This game (for most characters) is more defensive in nature. Some people prefer defensive play, that’s why every game has a few defensive playstyle characters. If you look at SF games that are more offense oriented you’ll notice things like DPs are much better.
Liking defensive play or offensive play is a matter of personal preference. It has no affect on actual game balance. A match being a turtlefest doesn’t prevent it from being a 5-5 match-up.
If you took away Ryu’s fireball and his DP, things might get more offense driven, but he sure as fuck wouldn’t be balanced.
was gonna tell a bunch of yall how wrong you are but theres just too many noob 09s with no knowledge of history to even bother making any kind of argument. the percentage of srk users that actually know shit about fighting games has shrunk massively since sf4 came out. convince one retard hes wrong and theres still hundreds more actively posting their bullshit
I don’t think you quite got the point I was going for. I wasn’t arguing that offense/defense was more broke/less broke, I was saying that the method to close the gap between Ryu (and the other A tier/S tier characters) and the mid to low tier bunch may be better served by eliminating how easily a great reversal leads to an Ultra… in doing so, the game would move more offense oriented rather than bringing the low tiers up by making them have great reversals that also FADC to Ultra. Doing the latter would make the game more of a turtle fest when meter is full.
And why is being tied for 2nd in tier listings a problem? Especially when it’s all 5-5 and 6-4 matchups. I mean, what the hell do you guys expect? It is a list, everybody can’t be on top. Somebody’s gotta be up there.
Why is the fact that Ryu is up there a problem? And what is it that Ryu has that 1) is all that overpowered, or 2) can’t be matched with buffs to the rest of the cast under him?
That he’s 2nd in tiers is completely irrelevant to how well balanced he is as a character.
I actually completely got the point you were going for. I was making the point that it isn’t a good reason to nerf a character.
You can have a low tier character that the best option is to turtle against. Is that a reason to nerf a bad character, just to take away turtling? Like, a Blanka with the lead will usually turtle, not because he’s afraid of getting ultra’d but because its his best strategy in most matches. There WILL be turtling.
A Chun with an ultra and the lead will probably turtle against Ryu. Not to avoid DP>FADC>ultra, but to hold the lead and put herself in an advantageous situation. Ryu can’t throw hado’s and he has to come to her.
Why would you want to nerf a balanced character just to avoid a completely valid playstyle in only a few match-ups?
Increasing offensive play is really more a matter of overall game mechanics, not individual character properties. 1 frame reversals would be a good start.
In order to get DP->ultra’d, you’d have to put yourself in a situation where you’d get DP’d anyway, ultra or not. Even without the ultra you would be doing the wrong thing.
Promoting a certain playstyle is a bad reason to unbalance a character. It’s more important to make the game balanced than it is to make it offensive. What else should we do besides unbalancing characters to make it more offensive, delete all the defensive turtle style character from the roster?
If it is so important to make the game all offense, they should tweak the overall game mechanics, not ruin characters because somebody refuses to play smart and wants to charge head first into a DP whether or not there is a ultra involved.
oh yes because the date of my registering here means I know nothing of street fighter:rolleyes:…I was in my teens when the first street fighter hit arcades so ya…I have a knowledge of it,.
Don’t be so eager to knock someones advice/thoughts/comments on the matter of street fighter…for all you know they could have dated your mom
I agree about DP->FDAC->Ultra being a big contributor, but I think a large part of the issue is how unsafe offense can be in SF4. The generally low amount of block stun in the game leads to most specials being punishable on block, and most block strings being reversible, and therefore unsafe.
If more specials were safe on block, and normal moves had more frame advantage on block, I think we’d see a much more offensive game.
This is kind of far back but I feel this should be clarified.
You can not do a True safe jump in the context that you are referring against Ryu. What you have there in that vid is not a true safe jump. A true safe jump actually hits when they do nothing, that does not. He could just wait there and do DP after you land and hit you if you do something like the example in that vid.
