Very true statement.
Example: look at HDR and the stuff Sirlin nerfed in that game. Do you think Sirlin couldn’t handle the shit he took out? I guarantee that someone on this board once complained about something that Sirlin took out in ST, and got flamed to hell and called a scrub for it.
Explain how Ryu is ELITE at everything. He doesn’t have EVERY avantage. Once again, if you’re giving me this bullshit that Ryu has EVERY Advantage in the game, you’re just proving my point, that you suck and you aren’t outplaying your opponent and blaming the character. If you can’t bait a good player, then you shouldn’t be playing street fighter.
Akuma? Insane damage potential, an Ultra that’s almost just as easy to land off a fucking jump in, Insane aerial game, insane ground game… oh and that ultra does 70 percent damage.
Glaring weaknesses on Ryu? He’s fucking BASIC. There is a counter to EVERYTHING IN HIS ARSENAL. Bison’s offensive pressure is much scarier than Ryu’s-- as well as Akuma’s. Not to mention Honda’s defense, as well as Dhalsim’s zoning all outclass their respective attributes when it comes to Ryu. He’s just Solid.
His overall strengths are his Ultra, and combo capability. What? 3 frame start up on the SRK. Big fucking deal. That’s what it’s meant for sir. If someone’s jab srking you out of your combos, you’re not doing them correctly, and so it’s your fault. You think that’s annoying? Tell you what. I’ll play Gouken and during your block string I’ll just try to Jab “Parry” all you’re shit. Hey, guess what-- you’re down nearly a heavy SRK in life from just that, and you didn’t even jump. Or what about a random fucking flash kick? Those work buddy. If you’re not up on your combos, you’re the one to blame.
And what is with this persistent frame Data reliance? 3 frames start up? Honestly-- Ryu’s SRK’s are shit compared to his super turbo version. Plain and simple. I could go through fireballs from across the screen with those and simultaneously just build meter in ST and even in HDR. He’s Mid tier in that game-- not to mention his Hadoukens are faster and his super is faster. Sure, other characters are balanced accordingly, but honestly-- they do exactly in this game what they did in that. Bait a hado and get in to punish.
The shit you’re complaining about is frankly fairly easy to get around. I have yet to deal with a Ryu who spams shoryu’s in the middle of my combos and beats me consistantly. Not to mention any other character for that matter, and that’s when I’m playing Akuma, or even Gouken(Which by the way… Gouken has terrible ass links in this game.)
Everything you just tried to retort is so fucking scrubby dude. And I’m not insulting you, I’m telling you out of experience. This is shit I’ve been told from players who place consistently at tournaments but if you want to argue with me, fine. You’re just never going to be happy with anything in a fighting game. There’s going to be something just as bad as everything you’ve said in the next street fighter, and you’re not going to like it. You’re giving me this shit about being unable to bait a super? You’re the one who said they can “Punish you full screen” with it. So I told you to bait it out of them if you’re so worried about it. If you’re not going to take my advice, shut the fuck up and learn to deal with it because come SSF4, there’s going to be something else you’ll be butthurt about.
Generally, high-level tourament players just deal with it rather then whine about it. They’re better then 90% of the people they base, so they have the easiest time dealing with it. That doesn’t mean that they like it though.
I know, right? In my opinion the HDR additions were all really fantastic.
But because people “dug in their heels” to what they believe is an elite point of view, they can’t accept the changes, no matter how beneficial they were. It’s terrible for their mindset and it’s bad for the game.
I also believe this. Just because a professional knows what to do against a character/technique doesn’t necessarily mean they agree with it either. They probably wouldn’t state their opinion on it though because they know it would cause a shitstorm within their upper echelon groups. That’s why you don’t see pros commenting on these threads or even the SSF4 feature requests thread.
I mean, what would you think if Marn came in here and said that he thinks shoryus should be toned down? Can you imagine the explosion of emotion? People would flip the fuck out.
I don’t know what you people are talking about saying well known players don’t express their opinion on what they think is too good. I’ve heard many well known players say they don’t agree with aspects of many moves, but i’ve never heard anyone say dragon punches are overpowered. Especially anyone who grew up on games where DP’s were much better than they are in SF4
Frame data isn’t EVERYTHING. If you’re basing everything on frame data, you’re missing more than half the picture. You also have to account for each move’s hitboxes and particular uses. Just because something has fast start up and fast recovery doesn’t automatically make it good. It might start up fast, but what if it has a garbage hitbox and leaves the rest of you wide open? What if something has ALOT of recovery, but it has amazing range and you can cancel it into something that doesn’t have alot of recovery and pushes the opponent back?
Frame data is VERY useful, but it’s only part of what’s going on.
i don’t agree with this. it’s not easy to connect unless your opponent is either a.) a scrub or b.) really not paying attention. otherwise, you’re looking at it as merely part of a mind game or using it in very particular situations.
Explain how Ryu is ELITE at everything.
Hmm, about the best pokes you can have, about the best recovery on normals you can have which is how we get his stupidly easy and plentiful combos. About the most ultra setups you can have, about the most super setups you can have, and the character is built so that using the super is actually realistic. About the best defense to everything you can have, about the best recovery with specials you can have, about the best FA you can have,about the best activation on normals, do you even play the fucking guy? How the fuck can someone conscious not have noticed this?
Akuma? Insane damage potential, an Ultra that’s almost just as easy to land off a fucking jump in, Insane aerial game, insane ground game… oh and that ultra does 70 percent damage.
Lol at almost as easy to land. You’re comparing the raging demon to some jackass mashing an SRK anytime he wants? He’s got a good aerial game, takes a hell of alot of damage too for what he gives out doesn’t he? Yea that’s what balance is buddy, he EARNS his ultra. Ryu could pretty much be immune to that raging demon setup that’s supposedly so easy to land btw…and he could potentially use lp SRK to trade with air fireball and ultra the crap out of akuma who has such an amazing air game.
Because honestly, everything you just said proved my fucking point that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
You just fucking compared hondas headbutt with ryus lp SRK and acted like they were equal, are you fucking stupid? You’re talking about raging demon on a jumpin like it can compare to mash srk? I mean i can quote other people that echo what i’ve said and watch you swing from their nuts, because i noticed that two people can say the EXACT same thing and depending on the name people are either reading to break his knees or drop to theirs. Either way, the info is the info is the info, and player skill doesn’t mean a goddamn thing if you look over the framedata OBJECTIVELY and ask yourself why in the hell it should be that way. Lol@ baiting his super…it took me like less than a minute in practice to learn to combo it from a jab.wtf. Hitting you from fullscreen is just one option he has, who cares because there might be more than 20.
You also have to account for each move’s hitboxes and particular uses.
…Does ryu have some sort of disadvantage here i’m not aware of? I mean we can play the “what if” game, but why do we need to when we can look at what the actual case is and see that he has so many tools that have absolutely no downside at ALL.
The HDR additions were fantastic, but what’s being suggested here specifically is stupid. People aren’t considering what’s better for game balance, their just considering what’s harder for them to beat-- which is stupid. A lot of moves people are saying are overpowered really aren’t that bad, and it’s just common knowledge at this point for a lot of people.
I’m getting upset because people are complaining about shit that’s ridiculously easy to get around-- and other stupid people are agreeing with them-- and this lunatic likes to cite “Frame Data”, like it’s Jesus Christ and so we should just bow down and do what he say’s because he knows that a c.mk starts in 5 frames and is active for 5 and so on.
I want you to just think for a minute the ramifications of more start up time on Shoryuken. It would get stuffed fucking constantly. The Purpose of the shoryuken is to punish stupid shit that’s predictable, as well as work as a reliable anti air. First off, the Low punch shoryuken is garbage on invincibility, and gets stuffed clean quite a bit from most deep fierce or roundhouse jump ins if you time them correctly(which really isn’t that hard)… and medium punch isn’t that great either. Hard punch is the only REALLY good one for countering a jump in, and even then at some angles it just whiffs clean. Which leaves you TONS of room to punish.
Second of all, any reversal uppercut from most characters will usually fuck up your missed combo. Ken’s SRK does it, Akuma’s does it, Ryu’s does it, Fei Long does it, shit even Gouken, Vega and Bison can do it.
I’m sorry if I sound harsh, but this is SRK. We’re not here to hold your hand, we’re here to tell you to shut up and do shit better if it’s YOUR problem. You can blame the game however much you want, but if you lose in ANY tournament to a Ryu-- go complain to people like Keno and everyone else. They’ll just be like “Sorry buddy. Play harder.”
ALSO: Mr. 972 whatever the hell your name is, I apologize for being so harsh. If you want tips on you’re Guile Ryu matchup, just fucking short dude. If you anticipate an MK, just lightkick and it’ll beat it out clean. And you can sweep the MK on reaction if you time it properly. Honestly, Ryu’s still have to play that Matchup HARD, and if they don’t they lose. If you don’t want to take my advice, whatever. But I still stand by what you said really doesn’t make sense, and part of me doesn’t understand why you can’t beat a lot of the shit you’re complaining about.
I want you to just think for a minute the ramifications of more start up time on Shoryuken. It would get stuffed fucking constantly.
Yea man, poor sagats uppercut gets stuffed allll the time right?
First off, the Low punch shoryuken is garbage on invincibility, and gets stuffed clean quite a bit
…Whatever.
Second of all, any reversal uppercut from most characters will usually fuck up your missed combo. Ken’s SRK does it, Akuma’s does it, Ryu’s does it, Fei Long does it, shit even Gouken, Vega and Bison can do it.
Yea and they ultra you right after that right? Oh wait…
You want tips on how to land sagats anti-air tiger uppercut that’s soo fucking easy to stuff with it’s startup of 5 frames?
Jesus christ dude, I take it back. You really are an idiot. And yes I did compare Ryu’s lp srk to a headbutt when it comes to Auto-correct you fucknut. If you’re going to try and twist shit around, then go ahead. You’re not going to get anywhere with this game.
Player skill doesn’t matter objectively? Then why the fuck are you playing street fighter if player skill Doesn’t matter?
Akuma’s raging demon-- You fucking idiot… ANY JUMP IN WHILE HE HAS ULTRA IS A FUCKING DEMON SETUP. JUST KARA MK THAT SHIT AND YOU’RE GOOD. It’s happened to me and several other people MULTIPLE times.
And if you’re that FUCKING stupid to get hit with random Jab SRK’s and not block you really don’t deserve to win.
You don’t understand this game, and frankly if you think Ryu has the best defense, you really don’t understand fighting games either.
EDIT: By the way, looking at your past posts, I’m not the only one whose said this. You seem to have a knack for being not only pig headed, but also super pissed about you’re characters standing. Whatever. Easy win at a tournament if you’re really going to only rely on frame data, and not pay attention to the mindgame.
Trust me dude, this guy wont cave even though he knows he’s as wrong as the holocaust. The best thing to do is to keep nagging at him till it consumes him.
nd yes I did compare Ryu’s lp srk to a headbutt when it comes to Auto-correct you fucknut. If you’re going to try and twist shit around, then go ahead. You’re not going to get anywhere with this game.
Who gives a shit if it has a DECENT auto correction? We’re talking about BALANCE shit for brains, so if i look at that move and notice it takes like 3 times as long to startup and STILL has way more disadvantages after that then what the hell is the better move? That’s why the comparison doesn’t mean dick.
Player skill doesn’t matter objectively? Then why the fuck are you playing street fighter if player skill Doesn’t matter?
Read, comprehend,respond. Regardless of player skill the imbalance exists…WHY DOES IT EXIST? Why not fix it? Because the guy who claimed that adding a couple of frames to the startup of SRK(for example) means it’s suddenly a horrible anti-air?
Akuma’s raging demon-- You fucking idiot… ANY JUMP IN WHILE HE HAS ULTRA IS A FUCKING DEMON SETUP. JUST KARA MK THAT SHIT AND YOU’RE GOOD. It’s happened to me and several other people MULTIPLE times.
lol. Ok we know it’s the raging demon…i said that…how in the hell is that anywhere near as good as ryus ultra setup? Why respond if you don’t even understand what you’re responding to?
And if you’re that FUCKING stupid to get hit with random Jab SRK’s and not block you really don’t deserve to win.
What’s that have to do with anything? I can say the same thing for raging demon from a jumpin…wtf are you doing jumping in on him constantly with ryu? What happened to hurricane kick? Only…it actually takes abit of skill to set that up, akuma is fine.
You don’t understand this game, and frankly if you think Ryu has the best defense, you really don’t understand fighting games either.
Ok, what’s wrong with his defense…?
Okay, you can’t quote what I say, in which I answer you’re arguments, and then say I haven’t answered them. Everything you’ve challenged me to prove is there. There is no imbalance with the SRK.
Even if there was stuff to nerf with Ryu you’re focusing on the WRONG THINGS. Seriously, it’s like everything I have learned in Valle’s fucking wednesday class you seem to lack in understanding, and it’s just irritating.
The whole point of Ryu is to have a Solid character whose adaptable with no glaring weaknesses, and no glaring strengths. If you really think Ryu is an impenetrable wall of steel at this game… I have an idea. You want to prove how Imba he is? Pick him up and do what you’re telling us. Just turtle SRK, and hado. See how far you get. I’m not talking about fucking Internet matches, I’m talking about tournament experience. Arcades. Real shit.
It’s not going to be very far, because good players will pick you apart. It’ll be a lot less frustrating then me typing out all his weaknesses, and then you quoting them and not reading a single fucking thing I say and asking “Why DON’T YOU ANSWER THE QUESTION?!!” But hey, if you don’t believe me, prove me wrong. IF you’re such an amazing player with such a great understanding of Ryu better than anybody else on this board-- and you’re so much better at Guile than this guy: [media=youtube]AQjghxTB66s[/media] , who by the way-- also thinks Ryu needs nerfs, but when I told him what you said he thought those Ideas were stupid as hell… then you should have no problem showing us all how stupid we are and how imba Ryu is.
So that’s it. I’m not going to argue with you anymore, because this shit has been said to you countless times in this thread, and whatever threads you’ve been in, and it’s really evident this is either your first serious fighting game, or you’re just new to these concepts in general. SO go ahead and bitch… because even if you do get what you want in the next game, you’re still going to get wrecked with your mentality. Plain and simple bud. Or don’t take my advice. Don’t give a fuck either way.
**here is no imbalance with the SRK.
**
You don’t seem to understand that we arent JUST talking about SRK, we’re talking about the entie fucking character, SRK was just an example, get it now? You can’t compare a move that isn’t nearly as strong with it just because it’s somewhat similar in ONE respect, get it now? Especially when said move has more weaknesses, we good?
Even if there was stuff to nerf with Ryu you’re focusing on the WRONG THINGS
Yea instead of taking away stupid combos that shouldn’t even exist, or making specials like HK hurricane, EX hurricane etc punishable i should focus on taking away something retarded like trade SRK to ultra that doesn’t even matter.
**The whole point of Ryu is to have a Solid character whose adaptable with not glaring weaknesses, and no glaring strengths. **
What you agreed with me the whole time? Nice strawman. I did pick up ryu just for the sake of seeing if that shit i was reading was really as braindead as it looked, and it really was…that’s how i know that if you can hit with a jab you can hit with a super. Who said anything about turtling?
Read,comprehend,respond. Making an ass out of yourself by saying that slowing down ryus activation time makes it a shit anti-air should bury you, but it’s all about presentation here regardless of what you say it seems.
Ahaha… I know. but hey… he’s digging his own grave.
Yea totally, tell me again about how sagats tiger uppercut is a terrible anti-air because it starts up slower than ryu’s SRK, words of wisdom right there.
Oh really? Where’s the tourney footage you have of you beating everybody with him? I mean you obviously must have footage of you wrecking the fuck out of everybody with him if it was so brain dead easy. I mean shit… if you can wreck the fuck out of everybody with him, right? Hell, if you pick Guile-- even with your ideas about how braindead Ryu must be, you must at least qualify in every pool at every major tournament you go to… so you have to have footage of yourself?
Just to clarify by the way… jab super works on quite a few characters in this game. Rufus can do it, Balrog can do it… hell, Chun Li can jab ultra.
When the fuck did I say this?
You have a point… but then again when I played Ed ma, he also shut down my entire focus attack game, because all he’d do when he saw one was ultra, and it would hit every time because the dash out of recovered too slow. Not to mention you can hit it off a focus too. It’s still an ultra set up though-- and Akuma is still NOWHERE near the superbly balanced as this guy claims. And for the record, he assumed I thought tiger uppercut would get stuffed. Yeah. Okay.
Oh really? Where’s the tourney footage you have of you beating everybody with him?
?? I’m not going to main the guy just because any clown can go to practice and check out how easy something broken is. Good strawman, noone noticed that you’re constructing arguments out of thin air while simultaneously missing the point of everything said and dodging important questions.
.
Just to clarify by the way… ja defper works on quite a few characters in this game. Rufus can do it, Balrog can do it… hell, Chun Li can jab ultra.
Is that viable? Doesnt chuns most reliable anti-air costs meter doesn’t it? It’s still not guaranteed 100% is it? Yea…you just see rufus toss out his super ALLLL the time right? He doesn’t need the meter for EX messiah. What does balrog need his EX moves for? Totally useless…
As i said before for those of us who read what we respond to, using ryus super is actually fucking realistic, that’s why you actually see it being used regularly. Did you know that ryus jab starts up as fast as balrogs, does more damage and combos to a sweep for a mixup? But thats balanced because any good player can bait a jab.
Fuck…i need to get rid of this toolbar…fucking up whatever i say when i try to correct typos.
**When the fuck did I say this? **
I want you to just think for a minute the ramifications of more start up time on Shoryuken. It would get stuffed fucking constantly.
…