I did read it. And no I didn’t misunderstand you. To be honest, if you’re not going to bother to read the post why the fuck are you even on a message board. Do you just want to hear yourself talk?
I addressed quite a bit of that in my “wall of text” you seemed to ignore, but once again… you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Ryu’s skill is adapting. That’s the whole purpose of his tool set. He has the tools to deal with every match up. If you want to take that away from him, well then you can just scratch the character off into non existence because that’s been the basis of him since WW. He’s not a basic character to use because you’re constantly having to change your playstyle based on the match up, MORE SO than other characters.
If two “new” players are playing the game and one of them throws a hadoken at the wrong time, their going to get a jump in combo to the face. Not to mention a good number of new players can’t anti air correctly. So the idea that a Ryu’s going to all out beat the shit out of another character is ridiculously stupid to say.
And last but not least, this is a FIGHTING GAME. In quite a few fighting games, introductory characters are pushed near the top because of their all around good stats and adaptable gameplay. If you don’t like it, just quit.
Dude, whatever I honestly wish I could have a full discussion, but I have a ton of academic obligations that take priority over internet discussions. I’ll gladly continue this after Wednesday afternoon, I just don’t have the time right now.
But it’s not… Zangief and Blanka’s both do more damage. Akuma’s would tie their’s but his ultra damage gets scaled down during the hit so he ends up 596 rather than 600 like Zangief’s and Blanka’s.
Blanka’s can be used as an ambiguous crossup that does 150+ chip damage and Zangief’s is arguably as difficult to land as Akuma’s.
Wow, you’re right. Congratulations! That whole 4 points of damage completely covers every point that was made in my post adequately! [/sarcasm]
Alright, as an addendum, scratch that. Akuma has one of the most damaging Ultras in the game. Happy? Now maybe you could make a productive counterpoint instead of nitpicking?
Also, reversal Ultra, AA Ultra. Way to not address a point there.
Since people seem to want to skirt the topic, let’s stay focused. I’ll jump back to what I said a few pages back:
**I have a few disagreements with it myself, but I don’t see you linking us to a different/better one. **
Maybe that’s because i said so many times it didn’t matter. It’s you people who keep bringing it up because noones going to accept “but sagat can do this!” defenses anymore.
On a scrub level, lariat/cross up lariat/SPD mixup and River run/EX rolling/j.HK -> c.LP -> Electricity destroy scrub Ryu players. I’ve seen it firsthand. It’s also quite easy to do.
The fact that you’ve seen that firsthand might destroy your credibility, i can’t remember which one of you also said that akumas air fireball to red fireball “trap” was hard to get around,but that’s also ridiculous. Meanwhile, ryu’s tricks and tools to avoid things that about every other character has to deal with,survive from when you’re just picking up the game up until tournaments.
Maybe because I’m speaking purely from a beginner/scrub/introductory standpoint? Really, you should pay more attention.
At no point in the game is it run over by zangiefs and blankas buddy, meanwhile there’s a steady stream of shotos all the way up. If you’re going to blatantly lie then make sure there’s not so much evidence of it happening ok?
Blanka also has the balrog matchup which is worse than sagat, who do you counter pick for ryu exactly? You can’t counter pick for him because he has no weakness. From the point you first start playing up until you’re at evo, ryu has game mechanics on his side that allowed him to be more “friendly” to newbies and gave better players defenses and offenses that are nearly unmatched, in ONE character! Crossup? Pfft. Wakeup?Pfft. Zoning?Pfft. Corner? Pfft. Rushdown?Pfft. Link combos?LOL. Ultra? LOL! Super? LMAO! Footsies? Ha. Mash friendly reversal? Check. Even sagat doesn’t have all that and he’s getting a nerf,what’s that tell you? I really hope a professional ryu player comes in here and spreads some honesty.
Why would they pick either a slow character that can be beaten so badly from the outside, or a gimmick character that can be beaten with anyone who has knowledge, when you can pick the staple character with about every advantage and no weakness?
LOLOLOL, Did you really not realize that that was a list of my proposed changes to Ryu, or are you trolling?
You: State your opinion a bunch of times.
Me: Actually present a tier list that shows that Ryu is top tier, not OP.
Advantage: Me.
LMAO! The fact that I have watched and played against people of all levels of proficiency at this game, and keep company that consists of more than just people on the level of Justin Wong and his band of friends at Empire Arcadia, somehow hurts my credibilty? Talking about beginners, scrubs and the characters well suited for their level?
The fact that you don’t follow simple logic might destroy your credibility, lol.
And as far as I can see, nobody said Akuma’s fireball game was hard to get around. Is English your second language or something?
Love how you have absolutely NO specifics there. He has “tricks and tools to avoid things that about every other character has to deal with”? Oh? about every other character huh? I guess Ryu can fly and I didn’t know about it.
Lie? Is your reading comprehension that bad, or are you trying to make the ridiculous claim that popularity with beginners or casual players somehow amounts to something gameplay wise? Wow, Ryu and Ken must have been broken in every SF ever, that’s all the casuals ever pick!
Because scrubs know how to counter pick… wait, no they don’t.
Because having no counterpick automatically makes a character broken! I get it now! Not really.
So Ryu’s gone from simply “having no weaknesses” (true) to having “defenses and offenses that are nearly unmatched, in ONE character!” (LOL).
No guy, that’s Sagat.
That Ryu is well-rounded and versatile, that the only one of those categories in which Ryu is “unmatched” in is Super, and that Sagat is still better in the areas that matter most, like damage output, hence why he’s getting a nerf.
Because everyone knows you have to play a fighting game professionally to be honest :china:
“Every advantage”. LOL. Because his zoning game’s better than Sagat’s (not). Because his corner game’s better than Balrog (not). His crossup is better than Ken (…not). His link combos are better than Akuma (…not). His rushdown’s better than Viper or Rufus (that’d be a no). Wakeup and mash friendly reversals? He’s clearly the only one with a Shoryuken or similar move! (Yeah right.)
Like I said, adequate (even good) in all aspects, overpowered in none. The only thing he’s best at is his super, and I don’t hear anyone clamoring to tone down the Shinkuu Hadoken.
Unless you utilize all of Ryu’s tools well (you know, like scrubs can’t, as they’re scrubs), you usually don’t win. It’s easy to spam lariat and fish for SPD in comparison on lower levels of play.
Want the opinion of higher level players? Check the list of suggested changes that the general consensus of high level players from SRK sent to Capcom for SSFIV.
Want to know the consensus for Ryu changes? Most said None.
**Me: Actually present a tier list that shows that Ryu is top tier, not OP. **
Your tier list was a joke, anyone who thinks differently hasn’t figured out how to block blankas ultra yet.
And as far as I can see, nobody said Akuma’s fireball game was hard to get around. Is English your second language or something?
Yea the guy who said we shouldn’t balance the game around akuma said that, but you guys sound alike with your faulty arguments. I just looked and that WAS you, so you’re lying again like i expected.Goldfish memory ftl i guess
I guess Ryu can fly and I didn’t know about it.
That’s actually how he escapes from the corner. The specifics have been mentioned, anyone who’s reading english can see them.
Wow, Ryu and Ken must have been broken in every SF ever, that’s all the casuals ever pick!
OR they are basic and easy to play and win with…durr.
**So Ryu’s gone from simply “having no weaknesses” (true) to having “defenses and offenses that are nearly unmatched, in ONE character!” (LOL).
No guy, that’s Sagat.**
Not since sagat actually has a weakness, and we’ll see him get nerfed next game so you’re probably just trying to use him as a shield again.
**That Ryu is well-rounded and versatile, that the only one of those categories in which Ryu is “unmatched” in is Super, and that Sagat is still better in the areas that matter most, like damage output, hence why he’s getting a nerf. **
Single hit damage output maybe. Meanwhile ryu moves faster, can escape more traps, has a smaller hitbox, better footies, and isn’t a nerf magnet so stop hiding behind sagat.
**Because everyone knows you have to play a fighting game professionally to be honest **
Well we tried doing it your way,here we are. Ryu’s un fair advantages aren’t as obvious as sagats, so it’d take a trained eye to spot them.
**LOL. Because his zoning game’s better than Sagat’s (not). Because his corner game’s better than Balrog (not). His crossup is better than Ken (…not). His link combos are better than Akuma (…not). His rushdown’s better than Viper or Rufus (that’d be a no). Wakeup and mash friendly reversals? He’s clearly the only one with a Shoryuken or similar move! (Yeah right.) **
Yea, he’s at such a horrible disadvantage versus sagat right? Pfft. He can easily escape the corner with hurricane kick, and balrogs wakeup and crossup defese is weaker, as well as being able to be zoned. Ken is much better than ryu right? Too bad ryu has crazy crossup defense and that auto-correction thing will have ken eating an ultra. His heath is better than akuma, and while akuma can give sagat trouble ryu doesn’t have the speed deficiency or weaker footsies. Rufus can try to rush him down and get ultra’d same way ken does. He’s clearly the only person who can dp to ultra or super so easily, probably why you see his super so much at high levels and why there’s such a huge army of them at any level
**Like I said, adequate (even good) in all aspects, overpowered in none. **
Like i said, it requires a trained eye and it’s clearly too subtle for you to see, maybe that’s why you keep trying to bring up scrubs since that’s what you want the game balanced around? And it’s not even scrubs you’re talking about, it’s people who must be so new they can barely throw a fireball. If you read the thread you’d find several people talking about the super.
I didn’t make the list. Take it up with the JP SFIV wiki. And you have yet to present a different or better one. Like I said…
Advantage: Me.
More like you still lack reading comprehension. I never said it was particularly hard to get around, I said that he has added fireball tools for zoning that Ryu doesn’t have. (i.e., air fireballs, and a 3-hit fireball that costs no meter.) Then there’s the teleport that he can use to escape to the other side of the screen once you get in. If you’re Zangief, good luck with that.
You’re really bad at this. Not reading ftl.
Because a simple Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku equated to flying away from situations that everyone else has to deal with to you. I mean, it’s not like Ken or Akuma can do that move. I guess Chun-Li and Sakura don’t do anything like that either.
Wow, just like half the cast… durr.
Because weak footsies matter a whole lot when your game is based around zoning and powerful damage output, or when you have normals that have better range and priority on average than the majority of the cast (not). More like you described SFIV Sagat and called him Ryu during your bitch rant.
No, single hit damage output would be Zangief. Total damage output is Akuma and Sagat. That’s fact, not a shield. You gonna cry about Sagat every time he’s brought up now? You must be from the future, because nobody else I know has seen Sagat get nerfed yet in SSFIV. Tell me, does Karin make it in?
Apparently the trained eyes can’t spot them either. Other than Trade DP -> ULTRA, which is obviously unfair. For the most part, all I see is you bitching about him because he doesn’t have a weakness you can exploit (OMG, that makes him soooo broken! [/sarcasm])
Nope. Even match. If a bit of a pain.
Your point? As I said, Ryu’s solid all-around, but there are characters better than him in all respective aspects but Super. Rufus can rush Ryu down and win, if done correctly, just like he does on anyone else with an SRK or equivalent.
No. If gameplay superiority mattered so much in popularity, Sagat would be more plentiful on every level than Ken and even Ryu (he’s not). Characters like Rufus and Viper would be more popular than Ken, and there’d be as many Balrogs as there are Ryus. That’s only the case tournament level (if that).
You must find it really hard to EX Tiger Uppercut -> Ultra, or Trade HP Tiger Uppercut -> f.HK -> Ultra, or Tiger Uppercut -> FADC -> Ultra. Oh wait, you said Sagat’s getting nerfed next year, so we should act like he doesn’t exist now, right?
Rufus is clearly the only character that can link his Ultra so easily off a s.LK. Balrog is clearly the only character that can link his Ultra off a jab. I guess that makes them OP too huh?
Forget S tier, being A tier means you’re broken too, right?
No, I brought it up for the whole nonsensical “introductory character” point that you’re responding to without even understanding, genius. You’d know that if you were paying attention. Then again, you’d know a lot of things in this exchange if you were paying attention, and probably wouldn’t be wasting so much of your time being completely off-base.
A couple people complaining about something like you are =/= a clamoring. Most people don’t seem to think the fact that Shinkuu Hadoken is highly linkable and deals decent damage breaks the game.
What rank did you place at Evo? Because looking from the so-called “trained eye’s” perspective, Ryu doesn’t need many nerfs, if any. I guess you didn’t have a response for that point, huh? Gonna insult me again?
Or is it just that “trained eye” is your codeword for “BS term to make my opinion sound legitimate”? :lame:
Too many people are feeding the trolls in this thread as if they were pets. Let’s accept that some people have no idea what they are talking about and move on to more legitimate discussions regarding Ryu. Everyone should know who said trolls are.
I’m not saying I don’t agree, but what should this thread involve?The reasonable people agree, he doesn’t really need changing. What do we talk about then? What should his third costume be? What do we want his second Ultra to be? What do we want to happen in his storyline? What legitimate discussions are there to be had?
What, you think I play Ryu? I don’t play Ryu, I play one of those mid tier characters in the game who aren’t Rufus/Honda and thus go 5-5 with Ryu. I enjoy playing against Ryu. So when I see people like 9272 complaining about how Ryu isn’t Guile and has obviously decided that because some Ryu players went to troll the Guile thread and he needs to come in here and talk theory fighter shit like “every advantage and no weakness” like this means anything beside "I can’t fight against Ryu"or implying that a Ryu needs to be nerfed because everyone plays him online (as if that meant anything).
Could he take some nerfs and still be a solid character? Sure. Would this make the game more fun/tournament viable? I don’t see how. He doesn’t dominate anyone except maybe Dan, and attempting to fix what isn’t broken only ends up in tears.
You were the guy who wanted lariat nerfed and claimed that balrog and rufus couldn’t do anything about it right? I’m far from the only person who sees something wrong with the picture, but i guess it’s better i just back those people up rather than try to champion it myself, the frame data doesn’t lie.
Is your reading comprehension that bad, or are you trying to make the ridiculous claim that popularity with beginners or casual players somehow amounts to something gameplay wise? Wow, Ryu and Ken must have been broken in every SF ever, that’s all the casuals ever pick!