You’re still not making the distinction between educated mashing and going spastic on the stick and randomly dp’ing. Why try and be precise and run the risk of fucking up when you can input 50 hojillion dp motions a second and just press the button? The numbers are with Ryu here, it’s that simple. You can try to argue that doing it precisely is better, but sadly it’s really not in this game.
In Sf4, a good player will properly land his AA, a middling player will properly land his AA, a mediocre player will properly land his AA and a terrible player might get the bad version/stuffed.
It has ALOT to do with the hitbox, you’re just being bullheaded at this point or you don’t know what you’re talking about. The horizontal range on the fucking thing is huge, don’t tell that doesn’t make a huge difference. And how many times have you gone for an ambiguous crossup and magically been hit by Ryu’s bandana on wakeup?
I see no reason not to try a psychic dp every now and then if you have meter, again, the numbers are with you.
Sigh, this thread is just out of hand. The problem everyone is so hotly disputing doesn’t lie with Ryu, whose srk has been more or less the same in several SF games, but with the SF4 game system on the whole, the lenient input system allows for uppercuts from crouch for all srk characters, and more importantly the reversal window in SF4 is quite large. Then one must take into account the fadc mechanic. All things considered any block string that isn’t 100% airtight can be subject to punishment. None of these complaints existed in earlier era SF simply because the games’ mechanics were different. And this trend of larger reversal windows didn’t start with SF4, CVS2 had a 2 frame reversal window if I remember correctly. On a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know how large the reversal window is in SF4?
i have heard up to 13 frames, although according to ilitirit:
regardless, i know people who couldn’t hit a 3-4 frame link to save their lives yet get frame perfect reversal dragons and TU’s consistently because of all the system leniency.
FADCing “to safety” and FADCing and confirming ultra are more or less the same thing, because rarely will Ryu FADC a DP with a forward dash and then take massive damage (either Ryu will win or a throw will be teched or a block string executed).
Ryu’s DP is very good in this game. It’s been very good in other games, but as has been mentioned, it’s a combination of the move’s strength and the system (auto-correct, large reversal window, shortcuts, trade -> ultra, etc etc) that make it too good here. So, since they aren’t going to change those systems, they have to change the move.
Triplejjj: The reversal window in SF4 is either 3 or 4 frames. It’s not nearly as big as you think. But the real culprit is the fact that there is a large frame allowance between each individual direction in the DP motion. I think you can let something goofy like 10 frames pass inbetween EACH of the forward, down, downforward, and punch inputs and still get a DP. This is why mashing works. You don’t need to have a tight, controlled motion to get a DP, and as long as you’re mashing punch, you’ll probably hit that 4 frame reversal window (and don’t forget negative edging makes it doubly easy).
Ryu is easily the worst and the best character in the game. The only thing about him is that he have** barely just enough tools** to deal with everything that people could dish out to him. He is the toughest to use, and have the highest demand for skill by a long mile over other characters. To beat an non-ryu charac with ryu, you simply have to be at least 3 times better than him.
** I think all would agree, that normally when u see a ryu player, he is either extremely good, or pretty bad. Because ryu is such a character.
Due to him having just barely enought tools ryu player have to always play at the very edge of danger. Thus skill requirement, tactic etc.
The 2 hit shoryuken in SSIV is a buff (not nerf) to ryu, as it increases ryu’s ability to hit balrog’s armour dash mix up.
There is no fix way to play ryu. Not every player keep meters. It is about adaptability. I sometime throw away all meter at an ultra defensive opponent to make him more relax at jumping in on me.
Ryu needs 2 critical moments to change a game (whether it is with super/ultra/normal) as compared to characters like Rufus, Akuma, Zangief, Blanka, Abel, Viper, Sagat etc. This means, that ryu does not have enough damage output to change a game in one instance unlike these characters. He need a minimum of 2 moment. This offset the fact that ryu have good normals, as ryu have to be played at edge of danger to be effective, while he risk being hit with a game changing moment and have a tougher time playing catch up.
With 5. in mind, and every character’s damaged being scaled down, I think ryu would become stronger in SSIV =) He will be advantaged when all other characters need 2 critical moment to change the game as compared to 1 right now, with all the good normals he currently have.
Shoryuken being traded is not a problem. It should not trade in the first place if properly timed (apart from lp dp reversal on wakeup).
I hate it when I “aim” to strike sagat’s t.uppercut and gets a trade into ultra. If sagat doesn’t have that, I’m glad to give up ryu’s trade into ultra LOL~
That is indeed dumb if up to 10 frames of leeway are provided for the motion. Still at the end of the day Ono and co. justify that degree of leniency with, " We want to bring SF to the masses". Don’t get me wrong there is nothing at all wrong with that goal, but the way they have gone about accomplishing those ends leads alot to be desired. In all honesty, I wonder how many newcomers had such difficulty with command inputs in more recent SF offerings such as CVS2 or Third Strike. The SF community should let their voices be heard with respect to these issues, not for SSF4, since that ship has sailed, but for potential future titles.
It’s around 7-8 frames for each direction of the move.
Easy mode or not, the game is what it is. This thread has degenerated into a competition of values in fighting games. (Or maybe that’s what it was all along?)
Viewed objectively, the game works at it’s purpose. It has drawn together a large group of fighting game enthusiasts, old and new. And essentially revived the fighting game scene in building off of what 3rd strike has slowly pulled together over the years. It is a success to its company. And there are enough tactical and skill elements in it to at least keep a portion of the best talent interested, beyond just its capability to draw a crowd.
But what is it that we are arguing about here? “What the developers should be doing”? “What non-scrubs should think”? “What constitutes ‘real skill’”?
The developers should do as they’d like. And we should respond as we’d like. Kill your attachment to the street fighter licence. Or immerse yourself in the older versions you preferred. It doesn’t matter. If you enjoy fighting games, then work towards finding and supporting those you most enjoy.
Scrubs is a term reserved for those that think a gamer should play a game a certain way due to some immutable sense of what makes a good game. The most significant defining feature of scrubs are their deprecation of others who enjoy a game and manage to find some success in it for themselves through a path different form the scrub themselves. If you think you know better, then awesome. Great. Just don’t insult those you’re unable to convince. That just takes us back to a false sense of “honor” that some feel for taking on a greater challenge by either playing a certain way or a certain character. And brings about the scrubitude.
What constitutes ‘real skill’ is what wins matches. You may win less in some situations due to some aspect of the game. But your skill is in how well you’re able to deal with it. And yes, if the only desire is to win tournaments, then pick the proven top tier.
Was writing this for a bit and now I see some people have echoed some of my sentiments somewhat. Heh.
Well said Theli, I don’t think anyone would argue at this point that SF4 has been anything less than an outright success with regards to revitalising what many thought was a dead genre of gaming. Still I do wish the developers would have chosen a different path with the game’s system, and this viewpoint has been echoed by several others. Nonetheless, I apologise for my contribution to the thread derailment.
with that combo starter, c.lp, c.lp, c.mp then c.mk xx fireball, it means that Ryu would have been pushed quite far away. Even with the FADC’d dash, Metsu Shoryuken seems to have quite a long range.
easily the funniest post ive read all year, but these two lines are part of what makes this thread worthwhile. you complete me stanzza and bruce lee kid
lol. i hate when i aim to strike sagats t.uppercut too…fuckin classic
