Every single damn time I’ve wakeup DP’d recently I’ve told myself after, don’t do that ever again you idiot, you were baited. The phrase ‘Wakeup Shoryu’ is rarely a compliment and usually proceeded with LOL.
I hope the reports we have been getting about well timed Ryu DP’s trading with jump-in lp/lk were off the mark and that the dp’s were in fact mistimed. I dont mind moves requiring high skill levels and tighter timing to execute as long as the outcome is reliable. The moment that stops, the move becomes pointless.
I dont know what the intentions of other characters AA’s were. Where they meant to be as powerful as the infamous SRK? I mean you just have to look at the title of this website to see how legendary those moves were/are/and are supposed to be! I dont play with Honda or Boxer so I’m not in a position to comment about them. I only play with Ryu. And does Honda’s headbutt really lose to throws? All I ever did was DP or block the headbutt! I guess I dont fight many honda’s online. As for Balrogs Buffalo headbutt being beaten by lows, are you sure about this? e.g. ryu c.mk vs buffalo headbutt, wouldnt the c.mk just whiff?
As far as I know, Kens FP DP has the same startup as Ryu’s DP’s so thats not entirely true. Kens MP DP has slower startup but his invincibility lasts longer. I think all of Kens DP’s have been improved so that statement is no longer true in Super SF.
If Ryu’s DP wasnt meant to be anti-everything and the fact that it hit crouched moves was a ‘mistake’ then I’m happy for that ability to be removed. I havent heard of any reports of Kens/Akuma’s DP’s trading like crazy, as opposed to Ryu’s DP supposedly trading with most jumping attacks, hence all the hoo-ha on this thread. If Ryu’s DP’s werent meant to be the anti-everything then why does it seem that Kens/Akuma’s DP’s are still anti-everything?
As for safe jumps, Ken FP dp/Ryu All dps/Akuma All Dps cannot be safe jumped as they all have frame advantage, maybe they should make all of the Dp’s in this game safe jumpable, or maybe you should try empty jumping Ryu instead and blocking, you’d be suprised how many people still attempt a reversal. I wasnt even aware of safe jumps until reading about it on srk, this sort of info wasnt around when I was playing SF2 ww/ce in the arcads 15 years go.
I think were going to have to wait and see. I’m tired of playing theory fighter and want to play super street fighter, not that there seems to be anything super about Ryu. You never know, when all the frame data gets released we might be pleasently suprised by what we find, maybe Ryu has been improved in some way.
Its a shame that whilst the guys on the Sagat thread are loving the fact that they have got Angry Scar to make up for the nerfs, Super Ryu doesnt seem to have anything new to bring to the arena. The changes might improve Ryu players and might force scrubby players to move on to easier characters, which will be great. I dont mind fighting hard for my wins, I already do fight hard and very rarely come across easy wins, I guess I’ll have to fight even harder.
Maybe with all the nerfs, Ryu has taken one for the team. I guess if nerfing one character improves the matchups for every character then its going to be worth it, after all, character balance is what we demanded from capcom.
With all the supposed changes to hit boxes, priorities etc. maybe we shouldnt compare sf4 to super sf4 anymore and treat it as a brand new game and re-educate ourselves rather then trying to play exactly like we did in Sf4 +/- a few changes.
See my replies in the quote.
im not going to go paragraph by paragraph on you to point out every wrong instance in your wall of text, but i can tell you off the top that honda regular headbutt, gen giekro and viper TK, all lose to safe jumps and or meaty attacks. also fei’s dp loses to most jump ins, safe or not. furthermore, 9/10 anti air or whatever headbutts nor giekro can not be fadc’ed. you may as well not list anymore charge characters in your arguments either. not like they can fadc into anything anyway
if you really need me to tell you how every characters invincible moves can be defeated by meaty lows, jump ins etc, i can. charcater by character.
you can, and should have a good anti air. you should not, however, have an anti everything.
1/2. Including using EX for other things how many times exactly are people FADC DPs against you?
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Landing frames, what? You have to execute early enough to not get hit and late enough to still be invincible, that’s only a couple of frames by my count.
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I play a bit of Sim alongside Ryu and I find his AAs easier.
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I can time reversals with a single input without mashing, so can Daigo I’d imagine. You don’t even know people are mashing, you’re just assuming because you have this mentality that all Ryu players are mashing scrubs.
Ultras are generally anti-everything.
Based on this picture, I’d say that Ryu’s trial 24 is this:
j.HP
c.LP
c.LP
c.MP
c.MK
HP Hadoken
EX focus cancel
Metsu Shoryuken
okay you win. i agreee. wake up ultra should be nerfed in sf4turbo hyper 9000
Sometimes Daigo mashes, sometimes he doesn’t. We know he does it fairly often, though. People sit next to him at tournaments and watch his hands. He doesn’t try to hide it. And if it works, I can’t say I blame him.
Ultras are (kind of) anti-everything, but they’re not safe on block, you can’t FADC them, they take longer than 3 frames to start up, etc etc…
Thank you! Finally something constructive and new in a sea of reaching arguments.
Also nice to get 100% confirmation on the c.mk XX hado fadc, U2.
That is just wrong. Top players mashing during their opponent’s block strings is a well documented technique. Its been observed many times, and many players have been unapologetic about using it because after all…its FUCKING GREAT.
Just like the question “why wouldn’t you use the best character”…its “why would you not use this amazing tool”?
And I’m not in the business of insulting anyone. If I point out that some players have built their entire game around a braindead easy crutch, and someone gets their feelings hurt…so be it, but that shit is true.
Brilliant. Finally a new bit of info on Ryu. How can you tell what the combo on the screen is? can you read japanese?
1./2. A smart Ryu will sit on his meter just for the threat of super/FADC. His regular specials are better than most characters’ EX’s. So to answer your question; people FADC whenever then attempt a dp, that’s not all that hard to grasp.
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Count again, and you forgot to consider the enormous hitbox on HP dp, so it’s far from a 3 frame window.
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Dunno what I was thinking before because you can just be mashing the dp from crouch anyway so its input is effectively 1 button press as well. Silly me
Also, normals have more startup to begin with so it’s slightly more difficult to use them on reaction.
5.Except I can see and hear them and they don’t try to hide it. I mean, shit, why wouldn’t you mash in certain situations? It’s just smart and it’s not always baitable if you’re close.
Why the fuck are you people arguing about wasting 2 meters of EX? Since when is it hard to build meter with Ryu. 2 meters is nothing.
I’d imagine so. I can read a little myself and at least confirm the normals, hado, and the FADC. Though the kanji used for the ultra escapes me.
Good stuff. I think a combo of that length would probably only work in the corner.
From the little Japanese I know, I can confirm that the last Kanji are the ones used for Metsu Shoryuken. The normals, Hado and FADC are all accurate. I expect this combo to do shit damage.
However, this does confirm that Metsu SRK can be linked from a Hadoken FADC. Perhaps it’s fast enough to link from other things.
probrablly havent played a character that dosent throw fireballs. he gets meter for doing what he should naturally be doing. with ryu, you are probrably getting jail sexed if you cant get two bars in one round
i used to main blanka whos anti airs were always normals, cr.mp, st.hp, st.hk and jump back fierce, i mess about with other characters nowadays and reaction dp is far harder to land than pressing one button. When you learn a character with situational AA normals its just autopilot press the right button, but with srks you have to dedicate yourself mentally to watching the jump, you can’t mash df,d,df because then you’re opening yourself up to being hit in the face. I think once you get to a certain level of execution and reflex (that 99% of player will never reach) the invincibility and all purposeness of srk’s makes them easier to use and you can twitch them out fnie (i’m close to this on 1p side lol), but for most people one button anti airs are easier. imo.