I really struggle to believe it has lost invincible frames…
God forbid meaties actually work!
No seriously this IS a good thing. Ryu has always been about a lot more than free shit that requires no thought, but that is what he largely became in SF4. Many characters had single options that stuffed numerous options of the other person, leading to a mindless rock-paper-scissors game that left a lot to be desired.
If the game plays a bit more like CVS2, where DPs work but they aren’t super free and actually require thought about the risk vs reward, I think it will produce a game that is much deeper in its strategies.
Give it some time once the game comes out and I bet many people will eventually agree that the DP nerf is actually a good thing.
I don’t buy it.
I don’t buy that the game does not provide the tools necessary to deal with an invincible reversal. You bait. You make them waste meter or you punish them horribly. A reversal dp has 3 possible outcomes.
- You get out of the wake-up situation and do good damage or MAJOR damage.
- You waste 2 bars of meter to avoid punish and manage to get out of the wake-up situation.
- You get punished for good damage or MAJOR damage.
In any case, I’m sure that the above situation will simply shift to some other part of the game. It will still exist. But some characters will win. And some characters will lose. And Ryu will remain the core and still be complained about for being too bland and easy. Life goes on.
If you’re using meaties on a character with a startup invincible reversal, then why should your meaty work, especially in SF4?
Whatever guy. Not having a DP that functions well as an AA or priority move (without spending meter) is not a good thing for a Shoto. Period. SRK wasn’t losing or trading to jump-ins in CvS2. Canceling Hadoken to Super at any point, Trade SRK to Ultra, yeah, that’s free. There isn’t a damn thing free about an SRK that works. If SRK can’t beat things on wakeup, if SRK can’t AA clean, then the move no longer works as it should. No way in hell that’s good for a character with a core game based around a fireball and a DP.
Yeah. And many people already think that. Generally they’re people who were whining about how “braindead” or OP he is, people hating on him as a character, and people who don’t play with him. You belonging to the first set, and by extension likely the third.
Not just Ryu mains, but most decent players didn’t have a problem with him for the most part, and especially don’t have a problem beating him with almost any character. Even though the Super trap and Trade Ultra were unfair, majority of people don’t have a problem with SRK having priority. Considering the fact that it’s a freakin’ SRK.
In the cotext of anti airs its not reliable especially when you look at ryu as a whole. This is what I was getting at. In any case it is slower than a srk.
No its not. Over all it just seems like it trades more often no matter who he is up against in the vids that I have seen.
Well yeah this is a problem. It might be just with the game overall. There is a vid out there where ken F.srk was getting stuffed by fei’s jump ins. Maybe capcom wants more jump ins to happen.
In the end its hard to say. I just hope ultra 2 makes up for everything.
Ken’s F. SRK gets stuffed high even in SFIV. That just means they didn’t fix it, disappointingly enough. But Ken still has M. SRK. If Ryu’s SRK in general has no priority, his SRK is boned, and he’s messed up in this game.
Ultra 2 is an Ultra. By that fact alone there’s no way it can make up for the loss of Ryu’s reliable AA, should it turn out that only the EX version is reliable for stuffing pokes, reversaling, and AA.
you do know that every other character in the game could be safe jumped and safe meatied in regular sf4 right? seriously every character not named ryu, ken or akuma could be exploited on wake up. if you get knocked down, you should be in a bad situation. end of story
as far as anti air. stop freaking out. as long as you time your dp’s to hit during the invulnerable period, they will work
Oh god, I love the bitter tears of lazy Ryu mainers who now actually have to think outside reversal DP on anything.
The question you SHOULD be asking is: Why should anyone get a startup invincible reversal that works on the lowest meaty pokes in the game, and is a brain dead AA.
I feel like a lot of players (mostly Ryu, Sagat, and Akuma players) have this entitlement mentality where they seem to think that what they do on the character select screen, should give them simple options for EVERYTHING.
Its just a mentality switch.
Also, you mentioned SRK not trading on jumpins in CVS2…but when did I ever mention jumpins? I was talking about meaties WORKING in CVS2. If you don’t time your DP correctly on wakeup, cammy’s standing roundhouse will trade with you or beat it clean.
That is how the game should be, either that, or give EVERYONE a brain dead reversal and turn the whole thing into Down Back Fighter 4.
Exactly. Ryu SRK is still miles better than Flashkick as far as AA options go. Its not the end of the world. SRK trades more wit meaties? Great, now certain characters can actually pressure the guy that spaced them out and worked their ass off to get in on. All other characters don’t have an answer for everything so why should Ryu? Oh noes he has a weakness now.
Want people off of you? EX-SRK. Want to be safe? FADC. 3 meters doesn’t phaze Ryu since he’ll build them back like a champ and his normal game doesn’t rely on EX.
Characters with non-EX attack specials that have hit invincibility starting from frame one:
Akuma
Balrog
C.Viper
E.Honda
Guile
Ken
Ryu
Sagat
Zangief?
Cammy
Dan
Fei Long
Gen
Seth
There are other factors to how good a reversal special is. Such as how long the invincibility lasts, whether or not it ends before attack frames start, when said attack frames start, what the hitboxes look like, and if it uses a charge. But I think it’s fair to suggest that whether characters should have the capability to potentially avoid or counter meaty attacks might not be the most relevant conversation to have.
^ Great point, but I think the notion of top tier not being vulnerable to safe jumps off untechable knockdowns is something capcom should really consider.
Hopefully they have taken a serious look at this for Super.
umm i don’t think ryu plays are concerned with reversing/mashing out dp’s as many are saying. Complaining about mashing out dp’s is as far as I know a beginners problem. Since its fixed in this game now everyone can easily rush in on those who always mashed out dp’s. who cares. really its silly to argue about that when there are ways around it. Yeah it makes the matchup more frustatign for those who face ryu but the whole point is that it could be dealt with in vanilla.
My question is will srk’s work as an AA if timed correctly?
If not a deep F.SRK then you still have and early-timed L.SRK. Either way, you still don’t want to jump-in on Ryu.
Getting a reversal should not be a simple matter of deciding whether you want to do it or not; there should be some execution involved. Right now you don’t even decide on the moment, it just happens as soon there’s an opening in a block string. And trying to bait it will just get it FADC’d because they have such huge range to begin with.
If you don’t see something fundamentally wrong with this, you’re an idiot, pure and simple.
Agreed. not sure why its even being brought up and no one suggested that they wanted that from what i recall.
Yeah well I hope that is the case. From the vids though its very hard to tell the difference because most of his dp’s traded.
Yeah well I hope that is the case. From the vids though its very hard to tell the difference because most of his dp’s traded.
Dude if I can AA 9/10s of the entire cast of SF4 with Chuns st.fierce and st.forward, then I guarantee you DP will still work.
But its going to require some thought and timing now. If I can learn to keep people the fuck out with Chun’s normals (which are damn good but have NO invincible frames and only a FEW active frames), anyone will be able to AA with SRK in Super as long as they put in work.
DO WORK SON.
I would change that to: If you don’t see something fundamentally wrong with this, you haven’t really learned how to play street fighter at its core.
I’m not going to call people idiots for disagreeing, but if they think that invincible reversals should require zero thought or timing, it says a LOT about what kind of player someone is.
You might as well be calling people nazis at this point. (Godwin for the win.)
Aaaaaanyway. Input shortcuts. Lengthy reversal timing window. Neither of these have been “fixed”. And both of those are what’s new to SF4. Invincible specials are not. And I don’t believe that they’ve removed much start-up invincibility either. Jabs stuffing srk could easily point to the removal of lower body invincibility, assuming that those jabs are hitting later in the srk animation. And I think that that’s what people are going gaga over right now. It’ll blow over and isn’t a big deal. People will be back to complaining about shotos before you know it.