If you didn’t cut off the rest of his sentence, you would get your answer. It compounds with the fact that you can easily DP from crouch, creating a veritable wall of hitbox where there was none just a frame before. Timing is so easy it’s ridiculous compared to past games.
[LIST=1]
[]Duck
[]Wank on Stick
[]Hit :p:
[]Obliterate everything 2m in front of and above you
[]???
[]METSU 'ADUKEN!!!
[/LIST]
METSU ADUKEN is winning
aduken is chicken
Someone said Ken can’t FB>FADC>U1 in SF4? I’m pretty sure he can link his U1 with an EXFB>FADC. I tried it though and it’s hard :x
As long as the invincibility frames are the same and it becomes active on the same frame then all is good. I just want to use dp as a reliable AA.
Even with the nerfs, ryu is still gonna get hate.
Yeah even if he can EX fireball FADC Ultra nobody fucking does it cuz it’s a huge waste of meter and the execution is probably just frame. Otherwise you’d see Kens running that shit in tournaments.
Waste of meter and it only works in the corner 
but smh I still think Ryu will be fine…I look at his shoryu as a focus breaker now, no more fishin chun, dp yo shit!! Little bitch…But no seriously how do you start dealing with unblockables? I mean some people out there can hit 1 framers like it aint shit. I mean i know its risky but what if it starts to become a big problem? Or do you not see it that way?
p.s. -scrub alert dont spit fire at me for asking noob questions lol
I don’t see it that way because there were more stupid things in other fighting games that didn’t require 1 frame timing. Plus you’re trying to 1 frame time an ULTRA? Ultras have 90284320 recovery frames if u miss and ultras do less damage across the board now any ways. I think the difficulty alone in setting up the ultras keeps it out of competitive play for all but like real high level and even then the situations to set it up aren’t just going to be free for every knockdown. It’s just if you have a clear setup for it…that’s another option considering the damage on shoryu FADC Ultra will be scaled even further and u can’t directly look for people to jump in on u to land ultras all the time anymore. It’s pretty much going to be good luck reliably pulling off unblockables online either way.
sigged
That’s CvS though. That’s a whole different ballgame than SF in general.
First of all, they got rid of Ryu’s trade Ultra anyway. For Super, that’s a non-factor. Secondly, these aren’t options to deal with reversal Shoryu. You’re saying that the opportunity to use reversal SRK was less, and the payoff on using it wasn’t as high, but that’s not really saying that ST had any better answer for SRK other than block and punish, as it is in any SF except…
…3rd Strike. Or rather, SFIII. Parry neutralized SRKs for the most part, and that has really been the only reliable option for neutralizing an SRK in SF besides bait and punish. Or course, parrying neutralizing damn near everything led to a different set of problems, but that’s another story.
Point being, neither the SRK’s priority nor it’s hitbox was a problem in SFIV that needed to be nerfed. SF in general doesn’t have a better answer for SRK other than bait/block and punish, and not counting SFIII, it still doesn’t. And it doesn’t need to.
The skewed reward factor out of trading a DP has been fixed for the most part for Ryu. Loose blockstrings apparently haven’t. Be that as it may, the loose blockstrings and loose input problems really don’t have a solution in just nerfing DPs.
Ultimately, I just hope that at least one of his non-Ex DPs still function as the good GTFO/AA move that SRK has always been. I see no reason that it should be any other way.
Just because “Ken’s the Shoryuken character” doesn’t mean that Ryu’s SRK shouldn’t be reliable. Ken’s DP should be better than Ryu’s, but that’s not to say that Ryu’s DP shouldn’t function correctly. That goes beyond making anything a personal preference, as Ryu’s SRK is just as important to his zoning game as his Hadoken is.
If non-EX DPs aren’t reliable? That’s like saying that since Ken isn’t the “Hado” guy, his fireballs should be completely worthless outside of EX. On the contrary, his fireballs got buffed.
All Ken needs is more damage output and better ranges/recovery on his DP than Ryu. He definitely has that now. That doesn’t have a damn thing to do with whether or not Ryu can AA or reversal well with his SRK.
And besides, sure there’s logic supporting using Ken over Ryu in SFIV. Ryu can’t do everything Ken can. Ryu’s considered better in SFIV, but that doesn’t mean that Ken has no merits at all.
Plus, it’s not like one being better than the other is some sort of great injustice that only SFIV has unfairly afflicted Ken users with, or whatever. It’s nothing new. Hell, by that logic, there was no point in picking Ryu in 3S, because Ken was the top tier one in that game. It’s always a matter or personal preference, regardless of which one is technically “better”. Stop worrying about what Ryu has and play your character, if you’re going to play that character. If you chose Ryu for serious matches, then just be a Ryu main. Nobody forced you to do that, because Ken is a perfectly viable character.
As for the unblockables, apparently mashing jab then blocking is a universal escape. Most of the cast can escape in some way, shape or form.
Rather that draw this out as per usual I’ll just keep it succinct and say you’re wrong yet again.
Get your head out of your ass.
Yawn
As soon as you get the stick out of yours. You don’t like SFIV in general, and don’t like the system, which still hasn’t been fixed. Why are you even here? Go play ST. If you think you’re accomplishing anything by just saying “you’re wrong”, and nothing else, then you’re a pretty big idiot.
You must be really bored if you hang around just to bitch, moan and flame instead of actually contributing anything meaningful to the discussion. I don’t have time for it.
kens damage output is pretty high already. I dont know if the devs tweaked his recovery on DP’s but if they havent yet than it shouldnt be touched. Ryu/Ken have a fast if not the fastest recovering DP’s in the game already along with fastest startup. Last thing i want to see is the lp.DP spammers to have more of a reason to do it. Outside of Kens Ultra, hes pretty balanced if Ryu gets his nerfs.
Well in the older SF games I still think better block strings and stricter timing to reverse on wake up allowed for stronger strategies to bait and deal with DP’s that aren’t solely reliant on walking away or backdashing from them. Even getting hit by a DP was a way to deal with a DP as long as u traded also and had more health. That wasn’t the case in SFIV though and they mostly rectified that off breaks with Super. So far DP’s seem to have gotten balanced just like they did in CVS2 or Alpha or any other SF game. Less invincibility, less damage output. On top of toning down or near eliminating the dumb uses they had in Vanilla IV.
About hoping for non EX dp’s…he should be fine for having at least one solid non EX for AA. Even if he can’t…look at the multitude of characters that have no real special move based anti air unless they use EX meter. Like most of the rest of the cast. Either way Capcom is not going to reduce his DP AA ability to trades or stuffs.
As far as 3rd Strike…of course 3rd Strike is not like SFIV or SF2 but if u took parries out of 3rd Strike shoryus still wouldn’t be that good. LP shoryu is easily meatied and the recovery on anything but LP shoryu is pretty terrible. Even LP shoryu can be punished rather easily on reaction compared to ST DP’s. They don’t really do that big of damage unless they connect on the ground as well. 3S didn’t give 35 frames of invincibility to at least one of every character’s EX moves like is the case in SFIV. Parries didn’t really kill fireballs and other things in 3S like people think they did either. What killed fireballs in 3S was how they changed the properties of them. You stay stunned longer and unable to move longer when you parry a fireball than if u just block it. Which is why in matchups against Remy people would mostly block his fireballs instead of parry them. Especially when he can have up to 3 fireballs on screen at once.
@Nitro stuff:
Chill
I don’t use Ryu, I use Viper & Abel. I was just making my point that I wouldn’t use Ken in a serious match, let alone over Ryu. I wasn’t complaining about “some great SFIV Ken vs Ryu injustice” either. I also said I didn’t agree with the “take from character A and give to character B” way of balancing. I merely gave my opinion as to why they nerfed Ryu’s DP.
Lets examine your oh so flawless rebuttal
[LIST]
[]Duck
[]Wank on Stick
[]Block/whiff :p:
[]Any combo they want, shit loads of damage
[/LIST]
That’s why you should know your ranges against different characters for AA. With someone as good of an AA as Ryu you better be knowledgeable of air to ground vs. every character. Plus playing Viper I learned that if just BLOCK a jump in u don’t get hurt. Unless you’re fighting Zangief just blocking someone’s jump in isn’t the end of the world in this game at all. Sure you’ve lost some positioning and they’re in your face but u don’t lose the match just because you blocked someone’s jump in. Only if you get hit. Like if I’m fighting Sagat and I know he’s going to go for j.MP and I know I don’t have time to HP knuckle or reaction Ultra I just block it. If u just block Sagat can’t do shit except throw or try to DP. It’s not like he has a sick mix up game and neutral throws have shit range for him especially.
speaking og gief.do you think they will change the fact that you can cross him up and he can still larriat even on hit b4 you even touch the ground?
Again, that scenario is exponentially worse in this game. Even when considering the weird ass jump arcs the floatier characters are taking a risk jumping from full screen… It’s incredibly difficult to jump in at the right range in the hopes of baiting a dp because the range on it is bigger than it’s ever been along with the rewards of succesfully landing it. Don’t even get me started on kara TU.
Don’t forget about the net-code, which has the hilarious tendency to cause you to get hit by attacks that actually don’t hit you, like that DP that doesn’t even come close to hitting you but still does.
Yeah in Vanilla DP’s are stupid bottom line.