Not really, cause even the scrubs have figured out that if you don’t fall for mash DP, all they have to do is randomly choose between mash DP and mash throw…turning the entire game into rock, paper, scissors.
Technically IMO his ability to seemingly easily combo into his second ultra off a c.MK, fireball FADC is an auto buff. Especially since his new ultra will be one of the few ultras in the new game that do real serious damage. Now Ryu’s best footsie will directly lead into Ultras. Which even if it’s his best footsie that also makes him a smarter character as a whole since there are actually offensive attacks and maneuvers u can utilize to beat a c.MK whereas the only things u could do stop a FADC’d shoryu were defensive which allowed him to further kill your footsies with the threat of huge damage and push u into the corner.
Plus now that most all fireball characters have unblockables now…we might see some clutch situations where his mix up game becomes even stronger on wake up. Though just frame timing is required for unblockables so it won’t be a go to set up either way. Since shoryus have been toned down technically since Ryu also had the best footsies the game had to offer outside of maybe one or 2 other characters that is an auto buff too since now the game will be more centered around footsies now that shoryus don’t run the game. People don’t realize how much toning down shoryus basically auto buffs Ryu as a character nearly back to where he was.
At high level play Daigo was forced to use footsies more any ways since people would be looking walk and backdash to make shoryus whiff. So he was better off just building meter to have shoryu FADC ready if needed but would just fuck people hard on footsies and then saved up full super meter to have 2 chances to shoryu FADC when he needed. So essentially saving up meter for shoryu FADC instead of actually using it made it more threatning. Now that shoryus don’t have the strength they used to Ryu still has buff as footsies and no shoryus won’t lead to the game changing damage they used to with much any character anymore.
That’s just a lazy attitude. In old games there were always ways to bait and get around dp’s that didn’t involve “just block.”
I realize new school players aren’t aware of shit like this because it doesn’t apply to the shitfest that is SF4, but there should be other ways around that crap. And there’s really no good excuse for making block strings that bad. We already know these mechanics make for a boring ass game so why argue otherwise?
But isn’t the game meant to be rock, paper, scissors? Thats similiar to ken using his f+mk and then having the choice of following up into cmk/DP or throw!
What ways were available in the past to get around DP’s, besides blocking?
Fuck no, I don’t want a series of 50 million rps matches with the momentum reset every time. Play 3S if you want that. There should be times when you have a clear advantage and your opponent doesn’t get a get out of jail free card, just a chance to get into a slightly less disadvantageous situation.
The problem is that you’re ALWAYS on the ropes against certain dp characters in this game.
brucelee-kid sucks at life
Do you ever post anything that isn’t a dig at how braindead and easy-mode everyone elses characters are?? Seriously, you talk SO much bitter shit day in, day out I wish you’d switch up your character already. It’s all ‘mashing this, easy-mode that’. You’re worse than that aduken guy, at least he came out straight and said it.
The window for hitting a successful deep (160pt) AA srk against something like Sagat’s jump strong has got to be pretty small, 2-3 frames I reckon, hardly brain-dead. You’d know that though right, what with all your Ryu experience. You’d also know that cr.fierce is slow and useless at distance and standing roundhouse is a terrible AA.
Um, what?
Eh?
If your footsie game is getting taken apart by brain-dead DP mashers, who is it that sucks exactly??
[quote=“Duck_Strong, post:4166, topic:81244”]
Fuck no, I don’t want a series of 50 million rps matches with the momentum reset every time. Play 3S if you want that. There should be times when you have a clear advantage and your opponent doesn’t get a get out of jail free card, just a chance to get into a slightly less disadvantageous situation.
The problem is that you’re ALWAYS on the ropes against certain dp characters in this game.[/QUOTE]
There’s winner right there for ya
Well in CVS2 you had a lot of options that auto killed people fishing for shoryu too often like rolling. If you knew someone was going to throw a DP u just rolled and if they did a DP you would roll through the DP and be able to land behind them and punish them. In Super Turbo generally since block strings were tighter and DP trades didn’t take 400 damage away u had more options. Technically strong block strings auto avoid DP’s because it means u can generally apply pressure and generally keep the opponent from being able to shoryu to begin with. So they’re forced to think longer about when to DP and that sets up more opportunities to throw. In SFIV the opponent knows as soon as your block string leaves a jab they can start mashing and absolute guard allows them to do it even if they’re not holding on block. Plus in Super Turbo shoryus trading did no more damage outside of the damage they gave you for landing the shoryu. U don’t get an ultra afterwards or a super. So if you were a Ryu player and you were down 30 percent on health your opponent could just keep purposely jumping at you and trading with your DP’s because they will just flat out die before you do.
In 3rd Strike shoryus were bad outside of serious prediction during footsies because u could just parry them down. :lol: LP shoryus required a lot of work to reliably connect outside of combos in 3S.
Sagat’s j.MP being difficult to AA more so has to do with Sagat than Ryu. Nobody can reliably AA that shit. It’s probably the best air to air move the game has to offer. It’s one of the only offensive things that could strike fear in the ridiculous priority of shoryus in this game. Viper’s HP thunder knuckle (her DP) takes 7 frames to come out so he basically either beats it for free or only forces a trade with perfect timing from Viper. They said they are toning down Sagat’s j.MP so it doesn’t rule the skies like it used to so your shoryus and c.HP’s by default will be stronger against the most strangely powerful air to air move in the game. I don’t know why they thought Sagat needed that move. I guess it’s because he has slow foot speed or something and they felt he needed space to be able to jump in and pressure. Yeah that worked out real smart.
The only reason I can think of about Ryu not having a reliable DP AA is the dev blog stating that Ryu is the Hado guy and Ken is the Shoryu guy. I don’t usualy agree with the whole ‘taking stuff from some characters and giving it to others’ approach, but Ken was the DP guy (keep in mind I might be a bit biased since I use Ken), and if they’re sticking with that, then it’ll give serious players a reason to chose between Ken and Ryu. I sub Ken for casual matches against people that I know, and that’s it. I would never pick Vanilla Ken for a match I ‘need’ to win, simply because there’s no logic supporting it, especially picking him over Ryu.
The way I see it now, IMO, there’s actually a choice that just might come down to personal preference in the long run when deciding between Ken or Ryu.
is it fact that his dp is nerfed? Juri vid is not a good example because that odd kick that she has hits directly on the top of the opponents head. There are vids out there where shoryuken cleanly beats out normals.
With regards to Ryu being able to c.mk xx fireball fadc Ultra II, is Ken not currently able to do this in SF4? If Ryu can do this then I guess its a buff unless your playing againt Dictator where c.mk doesnt do shit compared to scissor kick.
The unblockable Ultra’s will be fixed with a patch, their a glitch and shouldnt be considered part and parcel of the game so I dont count this as a buff.
At high level play, you wont see many people jumping at Daigo, but whenever somebody did jump in, he would get hit with DP (even if he didnt have ability to FADC) and it would not trade. Not being able to DP successfully on an opponent who you have setup to jump at you is a big big nerf. Yes, you can use C.FP or standing roundhouse kick from certain ranges but these will always trade against various moves.
I’m glad they got rid of the cheapass DP trade Ultra, but they shouldnt have wrecked the DP to such a level that it will simply become redundant.
Landing a successful AA DP is all about timing the invincible frames and nothing to do with the hitbox per se, you land inside the invicible frames you get a clean AA, outside and you will trade with most things. If they’re keeping the same number of invincible frames and tweaking the hitbox for less ‘priority’ it really won’t make a blind bit of difference to decent players who’ve got the timing down as it is and those who can’t time it now and hit outside the invcinible frames will still keep on trading regardless.
If I guess my opponent is going to jump on me and I can time my shoryu right then it should AA successfully every time imo, all DPs should.
think people are getting a lot of misconceptions about the dp nerf. daigo dosent get trades because he always utilizes the invulnerable frames.
most Dp’s hit a frame before they lose invulnerability, but it requires that you time it deep. they will more than likely still work that way as long as they maintain the 4 frame invulnerability and hit on the 3rd frame.
what likely happened with the nerf is that they tweaked the hitbox so that he can be hit in other areas besides his back shoulder after the invulnerability passes. in vanilla you could touch his waist and still get popped into the air. the hitbox was literally from his fist to his thigh on the front of his body and on startup he could scrape attacks off the ground on the way up.
Hitting a deep dp is the easiest it’s ever been because dp’s have HUMONGOUS hitboxes in this shitty game AND you can do them from crouching AND you can wiggle the stick like a spastic retard and just wait for the right moment and press the button.
So yes, they are braindead. If you suck so hard that you actually mess them up that has nothing to do with the game and everything to do with you.
ST had it right. It should be next to impossible to trade with a dp, but the hitbox should be reduced significantly and you shouldn’t be able to land half life off it. Why is it that characters like Fei long can’t FADC Rekka’s (god forbid that would be too strong, yeah right), but shotos can FADC the best moves in the game?
It makes NO sense at all.
At least make it so you can’t fadc it on block. That would cut down on the idiocy by half.
If Ken was able to do c.MK, fireball FADC into Ultra don’t you think more people would be using him in Vanilla? He can finally do it now with his 2nd Ultra in Super so he has a 3rd Strike style footsie based combo into ultra 2 now. Ultra 1 still requires counter hit HP shoryu for full damage. Shoryu FADC Ultra 1 will be ass for Ken just like it is now.
The thing about the unblockables is that the patch isn’t so much the reason they won’t be overly used. It’s more so the difficulty in being able to do them and the risk if u mess up. There is FAR MORE risk to trying an blockable Ultra on an opponent than there was shoryu FADC. If you mess up an unblockable YOU DIE and shoryu FADC might as well be a button on the stick compared to unblockables. There’s definitely a risk involved despite the potential strength. Plus Seth Killian already came out and said that fixing the unblockables would not be something that would be easily patchable because of the way the game’s mechanics work. If you are looking for unblockables to be completely removed from the mechanics of the game you will have to wait months or even up to year. According to S-Kill it’s possible that it could never get patched so u might as well be ready for it now.
Personally I’d like to see more evidence that all of Ryu’s shoryus have been reduced to trade status against most jump ins. Even then you still have EX dp.
Yeah people are getting all antsy like Ryu’s DP has been nerfed to the point where you can’t clean AA with it anymore. Capcom is not stupid. They toned his DP down more so that footsies would be more effective against him and shoryu FADC wouldn’t be such a dominant tactic on the ground. Shoryus not working anymore for clean AA’s wouldn’t be something Capcom would outright try to do to Ryu. Even if SOMEHOW they killed the clean AA ability of his regular shoryus he still has EX DP.
remember fei sucks
What has the hitbox got to do with hitting it deep?
Umm, everything?