?? Well capcom nerfed the things i thought were dumb, and things that YOU defended, so if capcom was on my side i guess we know what’s up. You agreed with fouts, and he’s said things like “sagat doesn’t need footsies to fight ryu!!” so i rest my case.
Well, you’re back on mute, whore attention from someone else and i’ll read their responses calling you an idiot or whatever, regardless of who you talk to.
??? The stuff you suggested? Yeah, because they sure did get rid of LP SRK > Ultra, and added recovery to his Tatsu, switched Ken and Ryu’s walk speeds… nerfed c.MK… Oh wait… they didn’t do that.
I guess I struck a nerve. I expected as much. They say the things that hurt the most are the things that are actually true.
ITT: A bunch of people who have absolutely no gd clue what they’re talking about. (And a few select people who do.)
99.9% of the game community knows that Ryu’s godly DP, when FADCable to be safe, is pretty ridiculous. Capcom changed it (and really, not even all that much), and a few of you aren’t getting the picture.
Undoubtedly, Ryu will still be able to use DP for anti-air. That’s the whole point of the move; it will still be possible. Because it can be meatied jab’D on wakeup, people are complaining? Ryu has to block for once in his life? I know it might be a foreign concept to some of you, but DP isn’t supposed to beat every single move in the game virtually all the time. And hey, if you want that property (EX DP), spend meter to get it now. Ryu’s DP functions just fine as anti-air in a game like 3rd Strike (take away parries for a minute), but it can be meatied on wakeup. It forces Ryu to think through more options besides “should I DP or not”. More thought! Imagine that.
In summary, Ryu’s nerfs seem to be positive changes for the game. I say “seem to be” because I haven’t played it, but I foresee no reason to think Ryu still won’t be an upper tier character with tons of options that now has to be played smarter to win.
(As an aside, Sagat’s nerfs are pretty serious. Lost 100 health, lost damage on most of his stuff, and lost his best footsies tool which basically won him entire matchups. Another character who’ll have to be played smarter to win.)
If they nerf Ryu’s DP invincibility by any more than ONE frame, he’s going to be pretty screwed.
Here’s some simple mathematics- Ryu’s strong and fierce DP currently hit on the 3rd frame, and they are “1~4f invincible, 5~16f lower body invincibility”. That means that while the DP is technically invincible for 4 frames, it only really has 2 frames of true invincibility- The 3rd and 4th frame when Ryu can hit you, but you can’t hit him.
If they change it so that he’s “1~3f invincible”, then it might not be so bad- deep DPs will still be invincible like they should be.
But if they change it to something like “1-2f invincible”, then you’re looking at a move that has priority as bad as Guile’s Flash Kick.
And no… making Ryu’s DP as bad as Guile’s Flash Kick (in its current form) would not be a ‘fair change’ in anyway.
The footsies Sagat had against Ryu got countered by Cr.mk. In the long run second hit cancel off St.Lk doesn’t matter in high-level play against Ryu. Sagat is not a footsie character, people just got away with having a decent footsie tool with him. People will just learn to have a better spacing game instead of abusing knee strings. And stop actng like Sagat will get crushed up close. Try blocking sometime.
At the moment, Ryu is a character that can play a solid ground game until he achieves a knockdown after which he can mixup into possible repeated untechable knockdowns. Great AA. Invincible reversal into damage dump or safety.
In the final retail build of SSF4 Ryu is a character that can play a solid ground game until he achieves a knockdown after which he can mixup into possible repeated untechable knockdowns. He lacks the ability to get a character off of him without taking damage in his opponents favor (Buktooths impressions) and his AA is also in question.
Now, while these changes will not kill the character, let’s take a look at this.
(Solid > Average > Shotty)
Ryu in SF4:
Average HP
Solid footsie game.
Solid but predictable mixup.
Solid AA.
Solid pressure defense.
Ken in SF4:
Average HP
Average footsie game.
Solid but predictable mixup
Solid AA
Solid pressure defense
Akuma in SF4:
Low HP
Solid footsie game
Solid Air to Ground game.
Solid UNPREDICTABLE mixup
Solid AA
Solid pressure defense +escape
Ryu in SSF4:
Average HP
Solid footsie game.
Solid but predictable mixup.
Shotty AA (DP nerf)
Shotty pressure defense (DP nerf)
Ken in SSF4:
Average HP
Average footsie game.
Solid but predictable mixup
Solid (Improved) AA
Solid (Improved) pressure defense
Akuma in SSF4
Low HP
Solid footsie game
Solid Air to Ground game.
Solid UNPREDICTABLE mixup
Solid AA
Solid pressure defense +escape
Now, honestly that list is apples and oranges, but if you were a Ryu player that relied on a great ground game until you achieved an untechable knockdown which lead into a solid mixup game with AA and anti pressure as icing on the cake but found out that the later was being removed concerning Ryu but being kept, and in one case improved on two characters that shared not just similar but almost identical traits you too would be wondering exactly how that conversation leading up to those nerfs came about. =)
At any rate, if those changes to Ryu pan out as described by the Cali guys, expect to see more Ryu players make a turn towards Ken and Akuma.
Has anyone talked at all about Ryu’s Ultra II? Seth said that at full it was the most damaging Ultra in the game. If it has some great set-ups, it could make a BIG difference in how people play Ryu.
To me it just sounds like Ryu will have to tighten up his game to be played at his same caliber you are used to in SF4. I don’t see this as a bad thing it will make everyone that uses him an all around better player. You will train better timing and execution. The only true nerf I see is his double punch fierce DP. That will make his damage output a little lower than in SF4. I do not see Ryu moving out of A tier not that it matters people say he will go back to his 3s form, but his 3s form is still pretty damn good.
Ryu will be fine although i do enjoy all the whining in this thread trades needed to be gone for this game to move forward. It’s not like it just hurts Ryu either as for the Sagat matchup dispute I see no trade DP’s hurting Sagat more than Ryu when do you see Sagat jumping in on Ryu that much?
except that dp has a massive hitbox that goes from the tip of his fist to the bottom of his feet, so no, a properly timed srk would still beat out pretty much everything in the sky and remain un-safejumpable. really, how often do you see even very early DPs lose to jumpins? it’s active for 14 frames for god’s sake.
if they made all DPs invincible 1~2f like his current jab dp, and since apparently they took out trade -> ultra, for once ryu would have to consider his options and whether a trade would be worth it or not. ex-SRK is likely still guaranteed to be the best AA option in the game. i’m not going to shed any tears for ryu’s needing to spend meter to get a thousand years of invincibility.
Not that this is 100 percent true but Mr.Wiz said he messed around with Metsu Shoryu and figured it was one of the worst ultras in the game. It doesn’t work unless you’re at point blank range. Otherwise you get the shitty 5 hit version.
my dude infil went in!
Properly timed SRKs don’t lose to deep jump ins now.
They would if they made DPs invincible 1-2f.
And anyone who doesn’t think that SRKs should beat deep jump ins should stop playing Street Fighter right now.
By the way, won’t Ryu still be able to SRKxFADC on wake up, but just would have to use light SRK instead?
Hopefully this means you can actually pressure Ryu instead of him being able to reversal DP you on makeup one hundred percent of the time.
I hope your definition of “solid” here means “godlike”, because you could make honest arguments that Ryu is the best in the game at every one of these categories… or, at the very least, top 3 in the game at each. Predictable mixup? The best option-selects in the game make it entirely unpredictable, not to mention his air tatsu crossup which is near impossible to block and his block strings at any time can be changed to DP FADC or EX tatsu to eat crouch techers (and lead to ultra). He counterhits with the best characters in the game during his pressure. His AA is probably THE best in the game. You literally can never, ever jump at a good Ryu. Just take it out, never do it. Ryu also has some of the best “buttons” in the game. cr.MK, sweep, cr.MP, ANY button in the air (HP, HK, MP, MK), cr.HP, fwd+HP… you almost literally can never press a bad button with Ryu. Sure, Ryu can be out-footsied, but his normals are so good that it’s hard.
He will still have virtually all these aspects in Super, even with a nerfed DP that loses to meaties on wakeup. You can bet your house on the fact that he’ll still be able to anti-air with a deep DP. It’s the entire purpose of the move, so I don’t think his anti-air in SSF4 should be “questionable” (and if DP DOES prove to be a little less reliable for some reason, for sake of argument, he still has jumping normals and cr.HP and standing HK and cr.MK that work in tons of instances). And because he usually has the advantage on pressure games (ie, he can’t be meatied), walk up DP FADC ultra will still be in the mix.
Remixxxx!
Ryu is smart now…I like it.
Fixed.
Well I was kinda juts generalizing how every other person on Xbox Live is some G1 Ryu that doesn’t know how to block or not jump for more than a second. I tend to forget that Ryu can actually be played smartly.
so do you propose that they leave it as is, at three frames, invincible to hit, impossible to safejump, autocorrectable, mashable, and FADC’d to safety? i mean christ, even a late DP trade will almost always be in ryu’s favor even without the ultra tacked on the end. i would rather they either increased startup to 4-5 frames and gave it MORE invincibility to cover the hit, or make it 1~2 invulnerable and forced ryu to spend some situational EX for once. i guess we’ll see when the game comes which route capcom decided to follow.