Yeah even 3rd Strike…a game where “parries beat everything” if Ryu got knocked on the ground he could get meatied out of his shoryu? Oh wow Ryu can actually get put in a bad situation? Insane! Even in CVS2 or ST or any other game he’s been in without reversal timing he’s getting fucked up just like anybody else. He lost that element to him in SFIV with by sitting on 2 meters and it could lead to huge game changing damage. Yeah…that shit had to go. People need to be able to actually put Ryu in a seriously bad situation again. No more Ryu taking advantage of being unable to be safe crossed on wake up.
Here is to Capcom focusing on fixing the system for the “Hardcore” next time. And, Ryu isn’t my only character, just hate to see something they finally brought back that I like from the ST days taken away so quickly (albeit this is in such a MUCH better form lol). I wouldn’t miss fadc on block and agree it’s in there to appease the new sf players. Just would rather have Capcom fix the holes in the system then patch holes and create others. I am not even saying a WHOLE new system, just fix issues with the current one. RIGHT. lol.
Actually I know that, which is why I purposely didn’t mention 3S. Notice how many other games where upper was viable even with meaties apart of the game? And not one had a broken ryu because of that.
What Ryu needed was fix ex hurricane to not drop mid-combo. Slightly less recovery on sweep and cr.hp , and remove his combo to sweep( and maybe some of his other links ). Trade ultra gone = fine. And then I think all Ryu players could agree that he would be fair. All ryu haters would still hate him of course… but with these tweaks , he would be about the same in ways.
ANd wasnt that the goal anyways? Fix FAULTS , and get balance through buffs to those who need it?
Ryu might still be fine , but when they nerf something as “important” as all dp`s ( juggle\prio and number of hits ) they could just take it a tad further , nerf the hell out of , well , something , and ADD ( key word , adding = new toys , which i think everyone with a main is looking for with SSF4 ) his donkey punch ( dont make it op of any sorts , just make it something fun , like in 3s , you could almost never use it , and it only combod from moves like ( parry) cr.hp xx donkey kick ( is it Joudan sukato geri? ) , which takes some sick reactions ( as in there are no parries … )
Ah well , ill still main Ryu , but i must admit , i was hoping to get SSF4 , go into training mode , and learn MORE , not unlearn stuff from SF4 and get nothing in return… ( yes , jumping the gun =)
ryu is like the cheapest guy in the game in sf4,he should be less stronger,his hadoken is annoying when i see ryu players online,ahh he makes my head spin.
Uh, I’m a Vega player, bud. In case you hadn’t noticed, I don’t like Ryu. I’m just saying why his matchup against Sagat got worse, thats all.
Not trying to be an ass, but this is not how the juggle system works. DP’s don’t set up any kind of juggle state, they just create knockdown state. It’s the move you are juggling with, that has the juggle properties, NOT the move that created the knockdown. Ultra, super, EX FB, EX hurricane, 2nd hit of j.mp (and now DP as well, there’s a buff) have juggle potential, and if they touch an opponent who is in knockdown state (and you haven’t already used the juggle potential) that particular move will juggle.
Which is very interesting if they have truly removed trade DP -> Ultra, because in the current system, it should always work, as long as you made contact. They must’ve somehow created a new state that occurs on a trade, or perhaps trading turns on a flag that removes the juggle potential from your moves until they reach neutral again? Perhaps they reworked the juggle system completely? (I doubt it)
I think you’re reeeaaaaaally over-estimating the use of the scar charge. It costs meter, for one. Two, you have to prime it first (so you have to get an opening/leave yourself vulnerable). So shag it, let him have the double damage on that ONE dp afterwards, he earned it really, by not only burning meter but also finding an opening to do it. I’d rather he try doing scar charges than pounding me with EX fireballs. It’s been in games before, and it’s been utterly useless, more just a easter-egg special than anything. **Hopefully **it’ll be the same way in SSF4, and I personally doubt you’ll even see it much at all (hopefully).
This is pure speculation, we really don’t know. I seriously doubt that it is useless against jump-ins, especially deep ones. There’s no way they would nerf it that hard. If you can’t beat a jump-in with a deep well-timed DP, then yeah, you definitely have something to legitimately complain about.
I think Ryu will be more than fine overall. Still has his amazing link-anything normals and jabs into combos, avoid-everything low MK, crazy crossup hurricane to avoid DPs and that top players can’t even reliably block, lots of setups for ultra, combo into sweep and safejump, 2JP EX fireball, good focus attack, DP->FADC, amazing super FB, etc. Hey, now he gets juggle potential on his DP, so he’ll have even MORE combo opportunities than before!
^ A new state activated on trade sounds a bit too complicated IMO. There are other ways of preventing ultras on trades:
-Make it so that the first hit of SRK doesn’t knock the target high enough for Ryu to be able to combo into ultra on trade… Although this might make FADC Ultra harder to do as well.
-Make it so that the first hit of SRK knocks the target farther back so that the ultra can’t reach him in time.
-Adjust hitbox/move properties of SRK so that trades push Ryu back much farther.
-A combination of the above “adjustments”.
Anyone of those adjustments would mean that trade>ultra was not actually removed, it is still there, but it’s just more difficult than before. It would still work in the corner, for example.
I read somewhere that trade>super is still in? What about trade>EX-fireball? trade>DP should work now too. 
We’ll see. All I’m saying is that he got something to compensate, didn’t get nerfed as hard, and was already the best character anyway. As for it costing meter, that’s never stopped anyone from bitching about EX Tatsu, or SRK FADC. It lasts until Gat’s next DP. That could wind up pretty huge.
Also, knockdown, angry scar. What opening?
I dunno. If it’s “trading with damn near everything”, and getting beat out by meaty jabs, It’s effectiveness as an AA is quite suspect.
As for combo opportunities on DP, so what? More damage scaling, lower damage DP. Big deal. That’s a rather trivial buff. Also, it needs to be verified if his Ultra I is getting a damage reduction as well, because that’s what I was hearing. His main combo into Ultra has been nerfed to not much damage at all.
If you think Sagat getting regular uppercut damage on a tiger uppercut by wasting a meter is going to help him other than adding a slight bit to whatever he lost then you’re thinking too hard. So far it does seem like the only time to safely use angry scar is on knockdown and honestly…Sagat doesn’t want to be spending EX meter all of the time just to buff his uppercut back up to regular damage. That means shoryu FADC Ultra doing anything close to regular damage will force him to burn 3 meters instead of just 2 and Sagat needs that meter in projectile war matches. I think Sagat s.LK getting nerfed is a huge issue for him as far as retaining his winning matchup status against a lot of the cast. Especially now that he has to burn meter to do real damage on uppercuts.
I do recall “it costing meter” being used as a defense in your own argument not just a couple pages ago.
Treat it as an EX DP that he has to prime up first. Hopefully we won’t see it very much.
I also recall Ono saying that they didn’t want to piss off the Sagat players, by nerfing him too much. I just hope the nerfs will be enough… maybe not, and maybe Ryu took a few more hits with the nerf bat in comparison, who knows yet. But they both needed a couple whacks regardless, and I still think they’ll be competitive characters anyhow. Just not so easy-mode as before. You’ll have to work a little harder. Yay!
can someone please explain to me how exactly his uppercut has been nerfed exactly? or is it just a big rumour?
oh and @ Half-Ro : i totally agree with your “un-fadc-able on block” idea. that would have helped the game immensely.
In the matchup thread where they discuss tiers the idea of sagat going 6-4 against ryu is a joke. Sagat can still land ultra after f+fk? Pfft…well in this game ryu has 12 different ways to land ultra, compared to sagats ONE feared combo into ultra. Ryu has an amazing spacing game too, he’s not exactly being overwhelmed by sagats fireballs although they are slightly faster. If sagat gets too frisky with them he’ll be punished as his hitbox when he throws them is MUCH worse, not to mention you can simply duck the high ones and the low ones recover slower.
If sagat really only has 1000 in super, LMAO at this being a 7-3 because ryu lost some BS that anyone who cared about the game hated anyways. Hell if ryu’s links and everything else works the same, it’s probably be closer to 6-4 for HIM since it was maybe 5.5 for sagat originally before he got nerfed.
Sooo funny to pretend ryu was at a severe disadvantage in this game let alone the next where sagat will be weaker.
Well it’s two hits now with only the first hit being FADCable, also the first hit does pissy damage according to Mr. Wizard.
That is one nerf.
The DP trade to ultra they say is now gone as well.
Personally I don’t see it as that big a nerf but I am not a Ryu player that relied so much on DP trades to ultra or even DP > FADC > Ultra. I used his pokes a TON, fire ball pressure, DP as pure anti air and L. DP > Ultra were my main tools.
It should also be noted I am not the best Ryu player either.
6-4 is not “severe”, 7-3 is.
You must really hate Ryu alot to be blinded by how this matchup will be even worse for him.
hey, remember me, brucelee-kid? i was right all along. ryu was a chicken and an advantageous player all along. he wins cuz he is a cheap character, not becasue u guys are good. now he gets nerfed, u guys are whining and deciding to switch to dudley, who now has advantages. this prove to me that u guys only win by playing advantageous characters. fight like a man and play fei long and earn respect by winning fair and square. either way, ryu can fight like a man, and now i do have respect for ryu. come on, cheer up ryu users cuz at least he will not bear his name with this famous phrase from brucelee-kid
having aduken is advantageous, using aduken is chicken, and abusing aduken is winning. lol
- Gat will have to forego a meaty tigershot to charge up if it is on knockdown. Not earth shattering, but still an unpressured wakeup (maybe) each time he wants a charged TU. Plus DevilJin’s whole post #3393
- I would argue that then DP’s effectiveness as an anti-poke is suspect. As an anti-air it could be dandy as a clam.
I’m pretty sure the action freezes durring angry scar, no need to really prep to be safe.
I don’t remember you…
But I will give you the decency of a reply.
Having HADOken is advantageous, having it and not using it is utterly retarded, and abusing it is easily punishable.
But good news for you, Fei’s new ultra is total crap, so using it should prove your manliness even more!
“Uh, I’m a Vega player, bud. In case you hadn’t noticed, I don’t like Ryu. I’m just saying why his matchup against Sagat got worse”
Yea it’s CLEAR as day you have no idea what you’re talking about at all. You can’t even ask most ryu players about that matchup because they don’t even know what their own character is capable of, but i do because i’d LOVE to have links like he does.
Go ask emblemlord, or go to the tier discussion thread in SF4, and try to convince anyone there worth listening to that sagat will have a 7-3 advantage in the next game…lol.
He doesn’t even have 6-4 in THIS game. Learn the matchup…there’s not really a damn thing he can do that ryu can’t punish, but it doesn’t work that way the other way around.