soaphead has been spraying shit around in all the character threads. he likes to make proclamations about things he doesn’t understand & talk like an angry 15 year old in a class debate. don’t bother trying to argue with him, he is sablicious-lite
Sure it does. People don’t like to work hard. Ryu is the easy way out. It shouldn’t be so easy to be THAT good. It has to do with his moveset, the game mechanics, like someone else said, he’s the perfect storm.
Actually, that’s not what I’m saying. You’re twisting my words to suit your purpose.
I would disagree. If I knew someone was starting out, and asked me who to pick, I’d say Ryu. Not only because he’s crazy good, but also because he’s EASY, and he has the easiest time dealing with most every hurdle the player will meet.
Ha, no more stupid than you come off, guy. That’s how you sound, regardless of who you play. Reason being you state something being too good without even going into why, and act as if anyone disagreeing with you is an idiot. Sounds like a retard/scrub to me.
Laughable, especially considering the majority of high level players disagreed with you. The high level players of SRK got together and sent Capcom suggestions for character changes in SSFIV a while back. Know what was suggested for Ryu? No changes. Similarly, I don’t think Ryu is at all overpowered, which would be what I consider “too good”.
But you go ahead and “admit” your opinions about a video game character if it makes you feel more like a man. 
LOL, that’s hilarious. Using logic like that, I may as well claim I can tell that you were menstruating as you wrote this.
If you had any reading comprehension, you’d know that I never claimed that Ryu was ever “average” or “not that good”, and I already explained how “all-around” doesn’t equate to “perfectly balanced”. The reason Ryu is great is because he’s good in every respect, not that he’s “too good” in any respect. Other people get what I’m saying. Learn to read.
I can see how ADD is tough on some people. Should I break it down with smaller words, so you can follow a single point?
-I’m not talking about “overall character quality”
-I never said Rufus was better than Ryu
-The only things I compared were Ultras
-Rufus’ Ultra costs less to setup, is nearly as easy to land, and does more damage than Ryu’s.
-Ryu’s Ultra is easier to hit confirm than Rufus’.
So, Rufus’ Ultra is arguably better than Ryu’s. And when you wanna stop being assholes about all this, you let me know.
Perhaps. That’s about the only thing of his that may be “too good”. Of course, the fact that it takes your entire bar, which is needed for EXs and FADCs limits it’s effectiveness, same as most supers. All in all, as I said, it’s not anything gamebreaking, by virtue of the way supers work in this game.
eh, it’s simple math really.
if you are likely to land an ultra once every 10 rounds with someone like Bison and his ultra does 500 damage that means, on average, you’re doing about 50 damage per round extra than you would otherwise had you not had an ultra. conversely if you can land the ultra 5 out of 10 rounds (this is being conservative with Ryu but whatever) on a 300 damage Ultra then you’re looking at 150 damager per round, on average. so overall even if it doesn’t do a lot of damage the fact that it has more setups given the probability of landing the move the net outcome is greater for Ryu and therefore the ultra is better. Rufus’ ultra I think is actually even better than Ryu’s for much of the same reason.
Pay no attention to Soaphead, he calls every character OP. He’s the guy that complains about Viper thunder knuckle spam and Akuma Roundhouse spam, and feels that any nerf those characters get for those moves are ‘deserved’.
Yes, I will call you out on it everytime I see you post Soaphead. I warned you, don’t freakin troll me I will shut you down.
Fixed.
I want a man’s game, not “wiggle the stick for lols.”
From a character balance standpoint, people not liking to work hard is irrelevant. Ryu is good, and he’s not difficult to use, but not being a difficult character to use doesn’t make him any more capable of a character.
I’m not twisting your words, just going by the reasoning that justifies things like “It shouldn’t be so easy to be THAT good”. The problem with your logic is that you’re mixing balance with popularity, and trying to factor execution barriers into character balance. If having a low execution barrier should result in less ability to compensate for that, then tier list should be determined by execution barrier. Which isn’t a good way to balance a game (look at MvC2).
How does that factor into a good player succeeding at a high level of play? Sure, a beginner can pick Ryu and pick up how to do most of his combos and use his moves fairly quickly. But that won’t help the beginner to beat any player better than him. Ryu is a straightforward character, and that works both to the advantage and disadvantage of a Ryu player. He’s easy to use, but also easy to figure out. No one who knows how to play the game doesn’t know the Ryu matchup. He doesn’t have any shenanigans or built in mixup that can help a player rack up easy damage.
Which is why a good Ryu player needs to learn, practice and execute just as well as anyone else. None of his matchups are free, and everybody knows how to fight him.
Then go play ST. 1 frame reversals in this game would suck, especially since most characters only want one version of their reversal in this game. Pianoing wouldn’t help very much.
I want reversals to be harder, not stupid difficult.
ryu is very good, maybe too good in some areas but he’s not scary, if you’re character doesn’t have a reversal or decent anti air rufus is fucking scary, same goes for zangief, akuma & plenty of other characters IMO. blocking against ryu wins you the match blocking rufus, akuma or zanfief will more often than not lose you the match.
i really hope the game mechanics are revised in super because i can’t see how they’re gonna make super more offensive while shortcut, auto correct, trade ultra & huge reversal windows exist.
It’s not irrelevant. Human execution DOES come into play, as we’re not all robots. If one player has to work 10x harder than the other to maintain the same level, he’s probably going to lose in the long run. It also results in character whoring, which is not a good thing.
No, you’re making assumptions again. Tier lists shouldn’t solely be determined by execution barriers, but it should be at least considered when designing a character, and DOES have an effect on balance. Conversely, do you think it SHOULD be easy to be that good? Ease of use is irrelevant, right? What if they gave Ryu a one-button DP? “By your logic” it wouldn’t matter, right?
MvC2 balance wasn’t solely about execution barrier either… it’s just that most characters were just plain shit, and didn’t have nearly half the tools as the top guys did for dealing damage and getting out of sticky situations. (see SF4)
It factors into making a FUN GAME. If the other player is leagues better, then yes, I should hope he would win more, regardless of character. Also, I don’t think you can call player experience against Ryu a character disadvantage, as that is outside the game completely. He really does have no disadvantages (his name isn’t Sagat? lol)
Doesn’t have any shenanigans? Super? Air hurricane? Option select? trade-DP? The list goes on. Let’s also not forget that he has virtually no holes either, and probably the the best tools for getting out of OTHER character’s shenanigans and setups as well.
I’m not saying he’s a free win, far from it. He’s not blatantly overpowered or anything, but I really do think he should have some weaknesses to offset his amazingly good moveset (I would want every character to have blatant weaknesses and holes that you have to work around). If you name a technique, he’s probably got it, and he’s probably got the most “gimmes” in the game. It would take just a few little tweaks, like make his DP 5 frames startup, lessen the range on DP so he can’t do 3 low jabs into DP, tone down the silly auto-correct+reversal window+DP shortcuts, get rid of trade DP>ultra somehow, make his sweep NOT setup a safe-jump, etc.
They’re perfectly feasible in ST even without pianoing. You shouldn’t just get a reversal because you choose to do one. You should have to weigh the risks involved in attempting one and seeing if it’s worth your while.
This training wheels horseshit has to go and making it 3 frames would not alleviate the problem at all. It’s still a huge window and you can still mash and get at least 1 dp input per frame. Hell even 1 frame reversal windows would be easy as pie with the current system. If your execution is shit, that’s not my problem, but don’t dumb down the whole game to help Joe Mongoloid compete because he still won’t be competitive. The end result will just be a worse game for everyone. There is no rationalizing the easier inputs/reversal window/auto-correction, they’re a terrible design decision, period.
They have their market share again. Maybe it’s time to ween the newcomers off this crap and SF will keep some of its long term appeal. I can only see it as a good thing for everyone if they tighten things up.
Actually DP and Boxer Headbutt both beat Cannon spike. DP I can see as it always has but boxer headbutt was a new one to me.
that would assume capcom is alergic to money. they aren’t. the sad reality is that this part of the game that needs tweaking will probably never be touched. ST is an awesome game and I think better than IV but it’s also very unforgiving and I know a lot of people who avoid it out of frustration.
Being somewhere in the middle of completely free reversals and stupidly hard reversals would be an appropriate compromise. It’s also true that not being able to piano limits the ability to pull out a clutch reversal and is probably what necessitated making the window larger. The problem is they went too far with it.
that would assume capcom is alergic to money. they aren’t. the sad reality is that this part of the game that needs tweaking will probably never be touched. ST is an awesome game and I think better than IV but it’s also very unforgiving and I know a lot of people who avoid it out of frustration.
Being somewhere in the middle of completely free reversals and stupidly hard reversals would be an appropriate compromise. It’s also true that not being able to piano limits the ability to pull out a clutch reversal and is probably what necessitated making the window larger. The problem is they went too far with it.
I dont want to get into your little argument, but for the record this is false. James Chen suggested lowering the juggle values of ryus super and ultra. The one thing left off the list was trade dp into ultra, but that problem may be fixed with ryus new 2 hit srk i dunno.
i respect your opinion as usual, and whilst i’d love a 1 frame srk and think it would be great i dont think its a good idea to alienate people at all. Fighting games are on life support, we need as many fans as we can get.
Haha you do realize that Capcom is not a non-profit organization, right? I think it was a brilliant design decision. They made the game more noob-friendly while still keeping it very competitive, thereby broadening the appeal of the game while not doing enough to seriously deter MOST competitive gamers.
Also, producing games on a large scale have huge overhead and fixed costs. They need to sell huge quantities of the game in order to avoid losing money, and if they stuck to extremely hardcore fighting enthusiasts they’d only sell a few hundred copies (they wouldn’t create the game at all in that case).
You know, I’ve spend hours, days, and months practicing C. Viper’s shit. Still, to this very day I lose rounds to Ryu scrubs when I fail to perfectly space and time a cross up burn kick and I eat lp dp into ultra. Now, I’m not going to argue that Ryu is OP or some shit, I only feel he has a few stupid things that need to go. But he’s high tier and he’s top three easiest in the game to use. That’s an issue for me. Now, I wreck Ryu scrubs for free, but I still lose rounds, even games here and there to dumb bullshit from players who look like they have their joy stick up their asshole when they play. It’s infuriating to lose to people like these, even for just a round, or just one game. He’s essentially a character that was designed for new players, indicated by his basic move set. We don’t need these types of characters to be as good as Ryu is in SF4. Ryu is one of the reasons I picked up Sagat, Honda beating Viper bad is another. It’s really easy for you to say all this, being a Ryu player and all. Go play Viper for one week, and then come back here and defend Ryu’s ease of use. Even if your opinion doesn’t change, at least you will have seen where I’m coming from.
i don’t know why people assume that sloppy design decisions offers any sort of long-term enjoyment for new-comers to sf, in the end it’ll do the exact thing it does to people who are used to playing sf - frustrate the hell out of them
frustrated sf fanatics will still buy the game, because its sf
frustrated newbies will just lay the game down and never buy a similar product again
people won’t come around for a second time, if the first time didn’t offer much other than a rare wasteful pass time
at the very least, they should change the name of the game to “special education street fighter 4”.
I’m so scared! Are you in love with me? You reply to my stuff a lot. Oh, and please quote me complaining about those things. You can’t, because I didn’t.
Its already been pointed out that the things nitro said were just plain wrong. Most high level players agree that ryu could use some balancing. The majority of people are smart enough to realize he is above average if not the best, in nearly all facets of the game, therefore calling him ‘all around’ is just plain silly. Theres no reason to continue this, but please go ahead and write another essay full of nerdrage dreck no one will read. You clearly have time to waste/issues to sort out based on your baseless accusations and assumptions about me.
Victor: Me. But its really a win for the community. We wouldn’t want people who don’t play ryu to come here and think ryu players see him as ‘all around’. Seriously…how retarded do you have to be…
lol its because Hoe Mongoloids execution is sh!t that **Joe Mongoloids **was able to reversal. Besides i think all games should be more noob friendly otherwise the player base would only go down if people quit. Not many people are willing to pick up a game only to get their a$$ handed by someone thats been playing for like 10 years and realize its going to take them quite a while before their even at a level to compete.