Ryu changes in SSFIV thread

[Nitro263]

The hitbox and invulnerability frames on flashkick are ass in this game. I don’t know what the hell they’re thinking adding more “range” to the move.

That was never the problem; it needs to hit above guile, not 6 feet in front.

This. Recovery’s not the problem. Somersault needs to go vertical faster, and be invincible enough not to be stuffed by common jump ins.

Doesn’t seem to hurt akuma that he can’t use the move mindlessly, and you’d think it would since he takes far more damage.

Yawn Neither can Ryu. Akuma has worse recovery on his SRK than Ryu or Ken. But he also has more options than either character, and his game is hardly based on his SRK in the first place. So no, it doesn’t hurt him. Not that that proves any point.

Spam Ryu’s LP SRK if you want. Have fun losing.

It’d still be a bad anti-air by comparison , that you need to charge for, on a character with 2 moves. Wow, almost sounds like you’re saying it’d be overpowered. What exactly ARE you saying?

That it’d be retarded, not OP. As you said, it still wouldn’t be a good AA unless they fix the problems with the move. Instead, giving LK Somersault Ryu’s LP SRK recovery turns the move into something closer to a long range poke.

Which is stupid, as that’s not how Somersault is supposed to work.

Nitro it may be easy for your main Ryu to punish whiffed DP’s from over a character distance away due to his cr.mk range being fairly decent but this isnt really the case for some of the other cast. In situations such as safe jumping in range where DP will whiff, even if Ryu lp. DP’s there is so many limited options that all we can do is just poke him. Walk in to throw = the typical, I whiff so ill just do another DP, or ill do another one in response to your poke and trade. Worst to worst ill just eat a poke that doesnt link. Yes i know we can walk in block and bait another DP but than its always the typical FADC to safety again.

Name the cast.

Ryu’s LP SRK has 24 total recovery frames on whiff. It’s -17 on block. Name one character that can’t punish something in 17 frames. If you need a point of reference, Gouken’s Shin Shoryuken comes out in 11.

I sure don’t have a problem punishing it with Sakura, Cammy, Ken, Guile, Seth, Rufus, Abel, Chun, Bison, or any of the characters I dropped or don’t practice with either. Especially if they spam it. Sweeping works well, and for just about everybody. Try it.

SRK FADC? You made Ryu spend 50% meter to deal you a small amount of block damage and not get punished for it. You don’t see how you came out on top in that exchange?

I dont know about you but thats my suggestion with tweaking Ryu’s. As you said, the biggest reason its good is because of recovery, but when you add it having 3 Frame startup, good priority, able to AA into Ultra without meter, knockdown, and the games autocorrect feature, the move is obviously too good. You might think its unnecessary, but i dont see why such a good move shouldnt get nerfed more. Yeah characters are different but the extent of difference is what makes some of these ridiculous 7-3 match ups. No reason for any one move or any characters move set to be too good. Even if Ryu doesnt have any 7-3 matchups, its pretty fair to say he has matchups where he pretty much shuts down others cast almost completely.

Like what? Aside from Dan, who does he shutdown? Dan is his only 7-3, BTW. And yes, Dan is that bad.

LP SRK’s priority is terrible compared to any of his other ones. From this game and most other games as well. If LP SRK’s recovery was high, then Ryu’d just use HP SRK instead. He’s leaving a huge punish window either way.

Knockdown? It’s techable.
AA into Ultra Meterless? You jumped in on Ryu with Ultra. You were expecting…?
Autocorrect? Sure it’s annoying, but last I checked that’s a game mechanic, and not a feature of LP SRK.

What’s obviously too good about it? Nothing. What is good about it in comparison to his other tools? Its recovery.

You probably don’t play Ryu. You should try it sometime. Fight anyone decent, and you’ll see that there’s not really anything about him that’s too good. He’s just shy of being too good. Could he stand to take a few minor nerfs and still be a good character? Sure.

But giving him “massive recovery on whiffed DP’s, especially the lp. SRK” isn’t minor. Nor is it necessary. Nor is it how Ryu’s SRK has ever worked.

[System_1]

@ Nitro263

Are you seriously defending Trade->Ultra and auto-correct->Ultra? Like seriously? cause you sound like a troll right now.

[lynch03]

Ryu’s LP SRK has 24 total recovery frames on whiff. It’s -17 on block. Name one character that can’t punish something in 17 frames.

The vast majority of that recovery is in the air, so you have to very carefully time how you punish the move if you actually want to do a combo. Plus imo its pretty tricky…I 've been hit by it because I tried to punish too fast and it was still active…

At the very least the damage should be lowered, but the game is done anyway so w/e. The move is too safe for a GTFO move and it does very good damage, more damage than some of the combos/throws its mashed to stop.

The fact that it’s relatively safe and beats everything is good enough and I don’t think a slight damage nerf would suddenly make it bad.

[Mnszyk]

@ Nitro263

Are you seriously defending Trade->Ultra and auto-correct->Ultra? Like seriously? cause you sound like a troll right now.

Oh shut up, he can defend whatever he wants. The only that sounds like a troll is you with the “oh my gorsh can you believe he just said that” bullshit.

Trade ultra is like the most avoidable Ryu ultra set-up in the game, and auto-correction has been in every SF game to date. Learn to deal with it, and stop jumping in like a bonehead.

The vast majority of that recovery is in the air, so you have to very carefully time how you punish the move if you actually want to do a combo. Plus imo its pretty tricky…I 've been hit by it because I tried to punish too fast and it was still active…

So like, get better. Your complaint is literally “I can’t punish SRK’s well because I haven’t learned the timing yet”.

An opponent mashing SRK’s is giving you a gift. If you suck too bad to take advantage of it, that’s really not your opponent’s problem.

[Nitro263]

@ Nitro263

Are you seriously defending Trade->Ultra and auto-correct->Ultra? Like seriously? cause you sound like a troll right now.

No, I’m not. Read the post again, cause you sound like an idiot right now.

At the very least the damage should be lowered, but the game is done anyway so w/e. The move is too safe for a GTFO move and it does very good damage, more damage than some of the combos/throws its mashed to stop.

The fact that it’s relatively safe and beats everything is good enough and I don’t think a slight damage nerf would suddenly make it bad.

Lowered to what, exactly? I wouldn’t mind as long as it’s 100 or more. It does 130 damage as it is, and the Damage output on HP and MP SRK FADC is already getting nerfed if it can only FADC on hit 1.

[lynch03]

Lowered to what, exactly? I wouldn’t mind as long as it’s 100 or more. It does 130 damage as it is, and the Damage output on HP and MP SRK FADC is already getting nerfed if it can only FADC on hit 1.

110-120

Oh shut up, he can defend whatever he wants. The only that sounds like a troll is you with the “oh my gorsh can you believe he just said that” bullshit.

Trade ultra is like the most avoidable Ryu ultra set-up in the game, and auto-correction has been in every SF game to date. Learn to deal with it, and stop jumping in like a bonehead.

So like, get better. Your complaint is literally “I can’t punish SRK’s well because I haven’t learned the timing yet”.

An opponent mashing SRK’s is giving you a gift. If you suck too bad to take advantage of it, that’s really not your opponent’s problem.

I never said that I can’t punish, just that it’s trickier than it should be. I’ve seen pros fail to punish it adequately plenty of times, sometimes getting hit by a following random dp. I also said I’d prefer it do less damage than have more recovery.

[Nitro263]

Hell, I wouldn’t mind 110 or 120 at all. Sure, the punish window’s not big enough that it’s ridiculously unsafe, or a foolproof punish. But if the recovery was so bad that it was punished 100% of the time, it wouldn’t be worth throwing out, ever.

My point is it’s never safe. It always carries a decent risk on it’s use, though not a very big one. And that’s how it should be. That’s how LP SRK works. Most times I see a pro drop an LP SRK punish, it’s because they went for something big that requires tight timing. But a simple sweep, or a decent Ultra punish? Rarely.

And against someone spamming that shit? That gets you destroyed, every time.

[gen]

sorry i missed it, but let me get this straight, you can fierce srk FADC ultra 1 on first hit?

[MixupMaster]

Oh shut up, he can defend whatever he wants. The only that sounds like a troll is you with the “oh my gorsh can you believe he just said that” bullshit.

Trade ultra is like the most avoidable Ryu ultra set-up in the game, and auto-correction has been in every SF game to date. Learn to deal with it, and stop jumping in like a bonehead.

So like, get better. Your complaint is literally “I can’t punish SRK’s well because I haven’t learned the timing yet”.

An opponent mashing SRK’s is giving you a gift. If you suck too bad to take advantage of it, that’s really not your opponent’s problem.

dang dude…hop off his nuts. trade ultra is garbage doesnt make sense.auto correct is usefull to alot of character but id have to say it sux for abel(auto correct roll back into the corner lol)

[superlollo]

dang dude…hop off his nuts. trade ultra is garbage doesnt make sense.auto correct is usefull to alot of character but id have to say it sux for abel(auto correct roll back into the corner lol)

also sucks with akuma’s teleport, at least abel’s got the stamina to back it up, an auto correct teleport means a dead akuma 90% of the times

[System_1]

Oh shut up, he can defend whatever he wants. The only that sounds like a troll is you with the “oh my gorsh can you believe he just said that” bullshit.

Trade ultra is like the most avoidable Ryu ultra set-up in the game, and auto-correction has been in every SF game to date. Learn to deal with it, and stop jumping in like a bonehead.

So like, get better. Your complaint is literally “I can’t punish SRK’s well because I haven’t learned the timing yet”.

An opponent mashing SRK’s is giving you a gift. If you suck too bad to take advantage of it, that’s really not your opponent’s problem.

Haha the shear idea that he can defend w/e he wants its kinda silly. Just the idea that the next thing that comes out of his mouth is a new way to go into ultra and just defend that makes me laugh. Your logic on that will make games break.

The sheer idea that I delay gives the player more time to think things through which is kinda dumb for a mixup on wakeup.

[OK_6_5_0_2]

dang dude…hop off his nuts. trade ultra is garbage doesnt make sense.auto correct is usefull to alot of character but id have to say it sux for abel(auto correct roll back into the corner lol)

yeah, I’ve seen too many bad ryus mash out a dp on crossup expecting to autocorrect, which it does. since they suck we end up trading and instead of giving everyone a reset, which it should, the damned thing actually leaves Ryu at an advantage. Do you know awesome it would be if trading on a psycho crusher left everyone in a juggle state so I can tag them with an Ultra afterwards? It would be crazy good.
But this isn’t Ryu’s fault and it can’t be fixed without changing the properties of the SRK and other core mechanism. the trade will stay.

for the record autocorrect is not in every game. I can’t recall for A3 but in ST it most certainly isn’t. Then again in ST you needed to be good to reverse in the first place so we’re talking about completely different execution barriers.

[Stay_Crispy]

for the record autocorrect is not in every game. I can’t recall for A3 but in ST it most certainly isn’t.

Uhhh, yeah it is. Why do you think the cross-up DP motion even works?

[FoutsKazuya]

The whole auto-correct mechanic is stupid anyway. I can understand charge characters having it, but shoto’s and anyone with instant command reversals? Thats basically capcom saying, “Oh you guessed wrong? Here’s a reward anyway!”

[Nos99]

auto-correct was NEVER this lenient.

In previous games, you would even try funny non-DP motion to try and get your character to turn around because it was so difficult… Sometimes they DIDN’T turn around anyhow and you went flying in the wrong direction. It was a definite BIG risk trying to DP crossups in previous games.

In SF4 you just wiggle the corners, and mash buttons. Brain-dead auto-correcting DP. I even ask people when they get it and they reply “naw, I tried the other way, I was just mashing, i didn’t even know you were going to crossup”

[Coth_X]

Uhhh, yeah it is. Why do you think the cross-up DP motion even works?

Because it stores the inputs first as one side and then finishes the inputs on the other side. Its not the same thing as auto correct.

[Nitro263]

auto-correct was NEVER this lenient.

In previous games, you would even try funny non-DP motion to try and get your character to turn around because it was so difficult… Sometimes they DIDN’T turn around anyhow and you went flying in the wrong direction. It was a definite BIG risk trying to DP crossups in previous games.

In SF4 you just wiggle the corners, and mash buttons. Brain-dead auto-correcting DP. I even ask people when they get it and they reply “naw, I tried the other way, I was just mashing, i didn’t even know you were going to crossup”

Everything is a bit too lenient in this game. But it isn’t that difficult to adapt.

Haha the shear idea that he can defend w/e he wants its kinda silly. Just the idea that the next thing that comes out of his mouth is a new way to go into ultra and just defend that makes me laugh. Your logic on that will make games break.

The sheer idea that I delay gives the player more time to think things through which is kinda dumb for a mixup on wakeup.

Yeah, I can defend whatever I want. Especially when you don’t make a good counterpoint (which you don’t)

I hate autocorrect and Trade Ultra too. But people complain about it too much.

[FoutsKazuya]

Everything is a bit too lenient in this game. But it isn’t that difficult to adapt.

Yeah, I can defend whatever I want. Especially when you don’t make a good counterpoint (which you don’t)

I hate autocorrect and Trade Ultra too. But people complain about it too much.

Maybe if you didn’t main a character who benefitted from it you would see why others complain so much. Its just another mechanic that rewards the player for his own mistake.

[Nitro263]

Maybe if you didn’t main a character who benefitted from it you would see why others complain so much. Its just another mechanic that rewards the player for his own mistake.

Weak argument. Sakura doesn’t benefit from it, and I play her almost as much as I play Ryu. Just because I main Ryu doesn’t stop people from picking a character who benefits from it just as much, or mirror matching. Trade Ultra hurts a lot more playing against Sagat anyway.

But the difference between me and people who just bitch about it like it’s some game breaking mechanic is I’m not afraid to just adapt and deal with it instead of continuously trying jump ins and badly spaced/timed crossups on a character with a DP that works well on autocorrects, expecting a different result.

Next time you get hit by a Trade Ultra or an autocorrected DP, remember that you’re probably the one who initiated that situation, and set yourself up for that.

[FoutsKazuya]

Your argument is the weak one. No one is perfect. No one can time jumps correctly all the time. You’re also forgeting that Ryu and a few select others benefit greatly from bad jump-ins or mis-timed attacks, while Ryu and those select others can get away with poor jump-ins that trade against the characters that can’t