No, it looked like Ryu used LK tatsu which has generally too short of a duration. There’s also a chance that DeeJay’s FBs are like Gouken’s and not passable. But I think it was just that he had bad timing/wrong kick.
More interesting about that vid is @ 00:45… c.MK didn’t link with the Hadoken.
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He pretty much hit him with the toe of his feet… You can see @ 00:09 c.MK linking perfectly with a Hadoken from a nearest distance.
Yeah, but c.MK xx HP Hado combos at almost max range. Has me wondering if he tried to c.MK > Hado, used a different strength Hadoken, was a pixel too far away, or if the properties on either attack have been changed. Or if Dee Jay has funky hitboxes.
Perhaps they just fixed c.MK’s hitbox so that Ryu’s feet don’t just phase through people’s legs without hitting them anymore.
Ryu’s f+MK hop kick would be quite unnecessary, especially if it hopped lows.
c.mk xx hadouken is unsafe at max range. It doesn’t combo. Every character in the game can ultra through it if they want. He hit him with the tip of the c.mk, and so the Hado didn’t combo.
I know that Red. Just wasn’t sure if he was at max range or not. The pushback from Dee Jay’s c.LK threw me off.
You never do like thinking things through. Just because Ultra 2 can combo off of SRK > FADC, doesn’t mean it can combo everywhere Ultra 1 can. How would that make ultra 1 useless? It would still have a shit ton of setups. I try and say how RK FADC > Ultra 2 isnt bad, and you go and try to dismiss it? Aren’t you the one trying to tell me why his Ultra 2 should combo? Geeze.
Also I would like to state that I do not hate Ryu, he used to be my favorite characte, but after noticing how damn good he is in this game and how everyone uses him, he can become quite unappealing.
Maybe some people dont want a sea of Ryu’s in this game’s competitive scene like its been for the past year. I’m not saying nerf him to the ground by giving him shit ultras, I’m saying give him diverse ways to land ultra, rather than just hoping for a combo.
I thought xx meant cancel? You can’t FADC cancel c.MK.
I guess I’m not understaning it correctly.
It would make it useless because the rest of Ryu’s Ultra I setups are either too costly or too situational to be very effective in comparison to that one SRK > FADC > Ultra setup.
j.MP > Way too situational. Only air to air.
EX Hado > FADC > Too costly in most cases where SRK > FADC > gets the job done.
LP SRK AA > Only useful on a jump-in
EX Tatsu > Only works in corner
EX Hado > Only works in corner
Air Tatsu > Too situational.
LK Tatsu > EX SRK > FADC > Parlor trick. Only in corner.
Super > Too costly for 3 extra hits.
Sure, combined that means he has an Ultra I setup for every situation, but as long as you stay out the air and out of corners, all you really have to worry about is SRK > FADC > Ultra, and EX Hado > FADC > Ultra if you’re focusing or fireballing. If Ultra II combos off SRK > FADC > Ultra for the same amount of damage that Ultra I combos off of it, then even if all the other setups don’t work, you still have his all-purpose Ultra setup, as well as a beefy punish in case you catch your opponent slipping.
To take the point a step further, considering the way juggle states work in this game, if Ultra II partially combos off SRK > FADC, it’ll probably combo off the majority of his other setups as well. At least partially. So if partial Ultra II does as much as Ultra I, Ultra I’s purposes narrow down to like, two. Which are countering fireballs, and creating distance on hit. Neither of which are all that useful compared to a huge damage punish.
So no, I don’t want Ultra II to do nearly as much damage as Ultra I on a partial hit. That’d make Ultra II Ryu even harder to deal with than Ultra I Ryu. That shit needs, like, Ken partial Shinryuken damage. It’s only fair, and I want a balanced game above all else.
You don’t like him anymore because he’s good? I can’t relate, but whatever floats your boat. Sure, a lot of people use him… but isn’t that how it always was? Especially on lower casual levels, all you’d see is Ryu and Ken. Ken even more than Ryu in the U.S.
Shrugs Oh well. Ryu’s always been my favorite character. From SFII WW to SSFIV and every SF in between, Ryu’s my main through thick and thin. Which is why I just laugh when people call me a whiner, or tier whore, or spoiled, or whatever.
That’s the thing. As long as Ultra I still works like it does, he’s gonna be doing the same shit anyway. If there aren’t a lot of characters that can come hang with him at the top (assuming he’s top in Super), there’s going to be a whole lot of Ryus in the competitive scene anyway. If the newcomers and lower tiers don’t get up to scratch, Ryu’s going to be even lonelier at the top, since Sagat and Gouki got nerfed. That doesn’t have anything to do with Ultra II, as long as he can still pick Ultra I.
I can understand wanting diverse ways to land Ultra. But there isn’t a diverse way to land a telegraphed 10-frame Shoryuken that only hits fully on the very start of the attack. Not in this game. Not unless he gets some other special way to set it up (looking at you, EX Joudan).
tl;dr version - If we’re gonna have a whole bunch of Ryus anyway, I at least want to see them switching up the Ultras instead of everybody just picking one because it’s way better than the other.
You’re not. xx means Special or Super cancel. Focus canceling is FADC. They’re 2 different things.
Yeah not that I really care about Ryu in SFIV but I’m not seeing much reason to use Ultra 2 over Ultra 1 unless you like less setups for Ultra. Ryu kinda fucked himself over by taking the most advantage of what the FADC and Ultra system is capable of. I mean if everyone could combo into Ultra off a 3 frame shoryu like Ryu what else do you really need? I mean if the Ultra 2 has a couple ok setups into Ultra then it wouldn’t be a bad counter Ultra against characters like Viper or Akuma who have shit health but that’s considering the Ultra really does that much more damage. That’s pretty much how Shin Sho was used in 3rd Strike. Pretty much reserved against characters with really bad health (minus maybe Yun and Makoto) since it gave him a big scare factor at close range. He still had much more limited setups into the super than with shinkuu and shoryu didn’t allow quite the mind game that Denjin did.
I think the best thing they should be trying to do with the Ultras is have them change the dynamic of the character and Ryu’s Ultra 1 is basically nothing but a super laggy fireball that does buff damage. Though at least it was a fireball so it had random situations during fireball wars where it could win or punish super laggy whiffs from a range. So far Ultra 2 just sounds like a really laggy shoryu which is basically a shitty Ultra 1.
Yeah, isn’t that how it should be? All I’m saying is if he had zero ways to get that full damage, people would never pick Ultra II. Unless it did the same damage on partial hit. In which case, people would never pick Ultra I.
Considering the comboability of U1, U2 will and probably should be strictly for whiff punishing and/or AA.
This
Ryu’s ultra 2 will be easier to land for beginners. No scrub or beginner will pull out srk-fadc-ultra1 in a match for a good amount of time.
That’s just the thing. Considering you can only have one Ultra at a time, what does the comboability of Ultra 1 have to do with whether Ultra 2 can combo or not? Going by what Ultra 2 is, it needs a good setup or two to be useful.
If Ultra 2 can’t be setup, how is it easier to land for anyone?
At beginner level play, newbs will probably find it easier to AA with ultra 2 than pull of an SRK FADC/trade ultra 1.
That would only be the case if Ultra 2 came out fast enough to reliably AA on reaction. Ultra’s generally have 10 frames of startup. That’s too slow.
If it came out 5 frames or faster it would work like that. but that’d be quite OP.
Also, something only useful at beginner level play is damn near useless in the long run. Exactly what I’m hoping Capcom will avoid.
Right, like hadouken spam, mashable DP’s, anti air lp shoryu > ultra and mash tech.
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Did you miss the “only” in that quote?
So basically you were stating the obvious. Your argument would be good if it were good.
Noone said AA Ultra 2 would only be useful at beginner level play. I think it’s been pretty much confirmed that FADC Metsu shoryu WILL add damage, just not as much as FADC metsu hadouken.
You’re trading damage in one circumstance for damage in another. AA Metsu shoryu, given suitable properties to fulfill that role, will be more useful in matchups where the opponent is more likely to jump in, no matter your skill level.
Of course I’m stating the obvious. It was my nice way of saying “I don’t give a damn about beginner level play”. Being a beginner is fine and all, but stuff that only works on scrubs doesn’t do a damn thing for me or anyone else trying to up their game.
Which I was under the impression is what this site is supposed to be about.
Aside from that, upping your game is the only Anti-Scrub tactic that anyone needs. Ryu doesn’t need an Anti-Scrub Ultra.
And I’m responding to what Saqs said, that being that it “probably should be strictly for whiff punishing and/or AA”.
Not to the fact that it partially combos for some undefined amount of damage.
The way I see it it could be one of 3 things:
*1. Much less partial damage than Ultra 1, no full Ultra setups - Worse than Ultra 1, Ultra 2 is useless
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Much less partial damage than Ultra 1, a small amount of full Ultra setups - About as good as Ultra 1, both Ultras are worth using
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Anywhere near the same partial damage as Ultra 1, full Ultra setups or not - Better than Ultra 1, Ultra 1 is useless.
I want the second option.
As for AA, unless it comes out faster, it’ll be about as useful as AA with Ken’s Shinryuken/Gouken’s Shin Shoryuken. Unless you anticipate that jump-in, it’s not very useful. Jumping in on Shoto’s is not a winning tactic in the first place, so most decent players aren’t going to give you the chance to rape their life by doing so.