Ryu changes in SSFIV thread

[Nitro263]

There is a reason Ryu is higher on the tier list than Viper is. Viper takes time and practice to be good with and master all of her ultra setups. Doing that with Ryu takes what…no time at all? Even then you have to figure the threat that Ryu posses with ultra and meter. Playing as Ryu is child’s play compared to playing Viper, a good Viper. All of Ryu’s ultra setups are simple, Viper’s take practice, execution, and timing, of course I would respect it more, and live with getting hit by it. I’m not saying Ryu is easy to be good with, but his ultra setups are easy, real easy.

LOL! I’m sure that the 900 health, lack of good footsies, and slow as hell normals and specials don’t have anything to do with it. I guess you missed the whole idea behind a tier list, that being two players, equally of the highest skill level, play 10 matches…

All that aside, in a tournament or in the middle of a match in general, I don’t really give a damn how much practice my opponent has put in. Either I’m gonna outplay my opponent and hit him with my tools, or my opponent is gonna outplay me. Period. If I’m better prepared than they are, I’ll win. if not I’ll lose. It’s as simple as that. We’re all aiming to have perfect execution. That has nothing to do with game balance in the end.

Funny how all of those examples are easier to land than Gen’s Wallkicks, plus they are far more threatening. Lp SRK completely nullifies jump-ins, and even if it trades you get ultra. J.MP can be used on reaction to jump attacks, though you don’t see it much, its still highly possible. EX Tatsu does decent chip damage and is relatively safe if blocked, free ultra in corner if it lands. Are you seriously saying these setups are comparable to wallkicks? Wallkicks, slow startup and very easy to block. Wow.

Nullifies jump-ins? If you’re fighting someone making mistakes like jumping in on Ryu with Ultra late enough to get LP SRK’d, or is making jumps timed poorly enough to get tagged out the air with a j.MP, it’s really that inconceivable that they’ll whiff a special? Get predictable with fireballs? Charge a focus attack? Get serious.

And I forgot to mention Crane’s cr.LK. It’s funny, you can cr.LK EXFA, dash K Ultra. You can also cr.LK > P Ultra, but the timings strict outside the corner. Easy as hell in the corner though.

Gen has enough problems, he deserves an easy-to-setup ultra. Even so, Gen is probably one of the most challenging character to play as, Ryu is arguablly the easiest. Even Yeb would hardly be a match for Diago, and you know Yeb is damn good with Gen.

Guy, Daigo is the #2 SFIV player in the world. There’s only a handful of players that’s a decent match for him in this game. What are you thinking? What was that supposed to prove? And why are you basing balance issues on execution bar? At a high level, Ryu is not easy. The only thing easy about him is the execution. At a high level, everybody has excellent execution with their characters of choice. And a high level is the only place that balancing really matters.

How “challenging a character is to play” has jack shit to do with whether Ultra II should be worth even considering substituting for Ultra I.

So what would be the point of having that one setup if people would just avoid walls?

I dunno, use spacing, and zoning and footsies and rushdown… force your opponent into bad positions, like corners… you know… play Street Fighter?

Look, Metsu SRK shouldn’t fully combo. The most powerful ultras in the game dont fully combo (Final Atomic Buster, Raging Demon, Tiger Destruction).

LOLWUT? You just said, Grab, Grab, and an Ultra that fully combos, except for in the corner. You’re not helping your point here.

I know what you want, and I can’t blame you. You basically just want to see the full animation of his Ultra II. This would be fine as long as it has big damage scaling, I’d say 350 when fully charged (after 1 hit) would be fair. Though it still needs less setups than Metsu, obviously. Two max.

Not quite. That’s nice and all, but what I want is to be able to choose between small damage and reliable setups and big damage with more difficult setup, and still have both options be viable. You all do realize that Ultra’s are selectable in this game, right? Meaning Ryu has to give up one to use the other. So all the talk about how good Ryu’s Ultra setups were in SFIV is just all the more reason for Metsu SRK to be just as useful in a different sense, as Ryu’s foregoing Metsu Hadoken for it. Good Ultras have at least a few decent tricks or setups in this game.

Lol at Tiger Destruction not fully Comboing.

I’m amazed people are wanting Ultra 2 to have full combo on derp xx FADC when so many characters already don’t get full combo on theirs (Cammy, Fei) have shit ultras (Vega and Guile) dont combo period (Gief, Akuma) or have no chance to land it vs certain characters (Fuerte vs any opponent that can change direction in mid air)

I don’t want SRK FADC Full Ultra. Just a way or two to combo into full Ultra.

Cammy - Needs more TKCS. Especially EX TKCS. There’s your full Ultra right there. Plus, it punishes fireballs, and does good damage on a Cannon Spike FADC. about as much as HP SRK FADC Metsu Hadoken.

Fei, Vega, Guile, Fuerte - My heart bleeds for them, but why would anyone ask for a shitty Ultra?

Gief, Gouki - Since when were grabs supposed to combo?

[Cosine]

All people are asking for are UNIQUE ways of landing the full ultra that isn’t provided with ultra 1 or some kind of other usage from it (if not for comboing), i’m sure everyone wants this for every character, no one wants one useful ultra and one shitty ultra, or TWO shitty ultras like fei long, ideally I want both ultras to have their own respective uses and actual incentive to use 1 or the other.

Ultra 2 for ryu unfortunately does not seem to provide that, it’s just basically the same sort of setups but LESSER than metsu hadoken, why bother picking ultra 2? It’s obviously not gonna punish fireballs like chun li’s ultra from full screen

[Nitro263]

All people are asking for are UNIQUE ways of landing the full ultra that isn’t provided with ultra 1 or some kind of other usage from it (if not for comboing), i’m sure everyone wants this for every character, no one wants one useful ultra and one shitty ultra, or TWO shitty ultras like fei long, ideally I want both ultras to have their own respective uses and actual incentive to use 1 or the other.

Ultra 2 for ryu unfortunately does not seem to provide that, it’s just basically the same sort of setups but LESSER than metsu hadoken, why bother picking ultra 2? It’s obviously not gonna punish fireballs like chun li’s ultra from full screen

The only reason would be for the damage. The only way it’d be worth it is if it had at least a couple ways to combo reliably.

A unique setup for Metsu SRK is pretty much a lost cause. Metsu Hadoken already combos from everything imaginable that an Ultra should combo off of.

[Stay_Crispy]

By itself, Tiger destruction is 13 hits, after TU > FADC > Ultra, Tiger destruction only lands 10 hits. Add in the fact that only 2 hits of the final uppercut land in corner, and you can easily see that the ultra doesnt, wait for it kids, fully combo.

Yes, have a problem?

Yeah. I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. You’re saying Ryu’s new ultra should have no possible way to combo it, and you’re reasoning is that when Sagat does TU>FADC>f/HK>ultra it drops a couple hits of the ultra. Who cares about the amount of hits? It does fucking 622-630 damage.

Even in the corner It still does 502 compared to Ryu’s 478. TU>FADC/f/HK>ultra ALWAYS does more damage than Ryu’s DP>FADC>ultra no matter what part of the screen in happens on. Pretty freaking good ultra set up for a guy who can kara-uppercut.

[The-Olympian]

All people are asking for are UNIQUE ways of landing the full ultra that isn’t provided with ultra 1 or some kind of other usage from it (if not for comboing), i’m sure everyone wants this for every character, no one wants one useful ultra and one shitty ultra, or TWO shitty ultras like fei long, ideally I want both ultras to have their own respective uses and actual incentive to use 1 or the other.

Ultra 2 for ryu unfortunately does not seem to provide that, it’s just basically the same sort of setups but LESSER than metsu hadoken, why bother picking ultra 2? It’s obviously not gonna punish fireballs like chun li’s ultra from full screen

:rolleyes: Ryu players are really spoiled!! sigh

[Cosine]

I’m not a ryu mainer, but I would like to see both ultras usable in different situations rather than seeing just one useful ultra and 1 trash ultra for all characters, it gives room for flexibility and adaptation depending on who you’re vsing.

[FoutsKazuya]

LOL! I’m sure that the 900 health, lack of good footsies, and slow as hell normals and specials don’t have anything to do with it. I guess you missed the whole idea behind a tier list, that being two players, equally of the highest skill level, play 10 matches…

Thanks for explaining my point as to why Viper is allowed to combo into ultra in many ways. Good stuff.

Nullifies jump-ins? If you’re fighting someone making mistakes like jumping in on Ryu with Ultra late enough to get LP SRK’d, or is making jumps timed poorly enough to get tagged out the air with a j.MP, it’s really that inconceivable that they’ll whiff a special? Get predictable with fireballs? Charge a focus attack? Get serious.

Sadly enough, you don’t understand the point at all. You go on to explain how those 3 setups semingly never happen in high-level play (keep dreaming), and completely ignore how all three of them are better than Gen’s Wallkicks. Nice.

Guy, Daigo is the #2 SFIV player in the world. There’s only a handful of players that’s a decent match for him in this game. What are you thinking? What was that supposed to prove? And why are you basing balance issues on execution bar? At a high level, Ryu is not easy. The only thing easy about him is the execution. At a high level, everybody has excellent execution with their characters of choice. And a high level is the only place that balancing really matters.

Its simple, if you like to exercise your brain by thinking. Yeb is without a doubt one of the best (if not the best Gen in the US. Please don’t take that lightly. Even with his great execution and understanding of his character, he would probably be crushed by Daigo. The point is, Gen is just not a good character, and saying its ok for Ryu to have easy ultra links just because Gen does, is ludacris.

Lol at Tiger Destruction not fully Comboing.

Must I explain everything I say for you people? The point is that the most powerful ultras in the game don’t fully combo, Tiger Destruction comes close, but it has flaws, such as the corner scenario.

For those of you that don’t understand what an ultra that fully combos is…

Ryu
Gouken
Dhalsim
Honda
Ken
Seth
Dictator
Abel
Viper
Rufus
Gen
Sakura
Boxer, Chun, and blanka if you count their normal links

Please don’t get confused again

EDIT : Metsu SRK probably does around 600 damage due to the lack of range. Can you imagine this fully comboing? That would be like akuma comboing into demon. No thanks.

Yeah. I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. You’re saying Ryu’s new ultra should have no possible way to combo it

The point is so painfully obvious I really don’t think I need to explain it. Also no, I never said there should be no way to combo into it, I said that it should not combo fully. You don’t like reading other people’s posts before you respond, do you?

[Seijuro-HIko]

Yes, lets make ryu more powerful so more people can use him. I never get tired of fighting ryus 8 out of 10 matches. Seriously, ryu is perfect the way he is. I actually took a 3 month break from this game because I got tired of hearing hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken…shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken The last thing ryu needs is an enhancement. Maybe when ssf4 comes out my rog dudley when i get ssf4 will actually fight a diverse crowd. Hah, who am I kidding?

[Cosine]

Yes, lets make ryu more powerful so more people can use him. I never get tired of fighting ryus 8 out of 10 matches. Seriously, ryu is perfect the way he is. I actually took a 3 month break from this game because I got tired of hearing hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken hadoken…shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken shoryuken The last thing ryu needs is an enhancement. Maybe when ssf4 comes out my rog dudley when i get ssf4 will actually fight a diverse crowd. Hah, who am I kidding?

Don’t forget the zoom in followed with, HADDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKEN

But on a serious note, giving like a couple ways of connecting the full metsu SRK won’t actually be making him stronger because think about it, by picking this ultra you’re sacrificing the setups you have with ultra 1 and the other positives with it, the utility of the ultra 2 has to make up somehow for that sacrifice somewhat otherwise its just pointless having 2 ultras to choose from at all, this goes for ALL characters, chun li has it down pat, ultra 1 doesn’t allow as much combo utility but it can be used as a punisher which goes through fireballs and other moves such as blanka ball, same with dan, his ultra 1 also goes through fireballs and counters various things whereas his ultra 2 allows him the combo utility.

[Vaarp]

Since every video I watch I’m more convinced that the damage of the Ultras has been nerfed to about the 50% of the original, I really don’t care that much about juggle Ultras now.

[DHEvil]

Ryu is a Homosexual gay man.

[System_1]

fouts gets fail of the year award wooooot

[Nos99]

Don’t forget the zoom in followed with, HADDDDDDDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKEN

But on a serious note, giving like a couple ways of connecting the full metsu SRK won’t actually be making him stronger because think about it, by picking this ultra you’re sacrificing the setups you have with ultra 1 and the other positives with it, the utility of the ultra 2 has to make up somehow for that sacrifice somewhat otherwise its just pointless having 2 ultras to choose from at all, this goes for ALL characters, chun li has it down pat, ultra 1 doesn’t allow as much combo utility but it can be used as a punisher which goes through fireballs and other moves such as blanka ball, same with dan, his ultra 1 also goes through fireballs and counters various things whereas his ultra 2 allows him the combo utility.

I think it would make him stronger.

It’s all about the juggle system. If Shinsho had juggle potential on first hit, you’d be able to get the full ultra off any setup where you can get knockdown (like metsu). This would be way too good, I’m sure you can agree.

So the only other way to combo it is after a move that resets the juggle meter. The only move that I know of that Ryu has like this is first hit of j.MP (and AA lvl2-3 focus). Those are your juggle setups. If you want it to combo off anything else, you would have to change one of his other moves in order for this to happen. But if you do this, he’ll also be able to combo plain ol’ vanilla DP (no meter) and Sweep after these moves as well. Ryu does NOT need another buff… as I’m sure you can agree.

He’s just too good already be default. I know what you’re saying, but it won’t work. It’s also Ryu… I get your point, but it’s also Ryu. So, too bad so sad. Fuck that guy. lol

Now, this is just about juggle setups. You should still be able to combo it after jump-ins, and maybe even combo into FB x FADC x Shinsho?

[Cosine]

Well what i’m trying to say is that it won’t give him additional options, just alternative options (that i believe is the point of having selectable ultras in the first place - provide players with hard to make choices and each ultra having respective pros and cons), with ryu specifically, it might not even be possible because his ultra 1 is just too good to ignore, there would have to be a MASSIVE incentive to sacrifice those setups to pick ultra 2.

The more I look into having selectable ultras, the more I realise how poorly they implemented it, for most characters they made 1 ultra good and 1 ultra flat out inferior, shit or just plain useless (or in rare cases having 2 shit ultras) rather than making both useful - Right now its almost like having to decide between choosing a machine gun and a toy sword, stupid, why implement selectable ultras when for most characters it’s a no brainer choice where you will ALWAYS pick the better ultra rather than actually having 2 useful ultras which have their respective pros and cons and their own respective utilization? They may as well just replace the existing ultra with the better one.

[Lvangundy]

I would just like to be able to land this if someone tries to jump in. SHORYUKEN to the ankle!

[JammyBoo]

I would just like to be able to land this if someone tries to jump in. SHORYUKEN to the ankle!

You mean shin shoryuken?

[Lvangundy]

lol. Even better!
:wgrin:

You mean shin shoryuken?

[Death_By_Nines]

This whole thread is lolz.

[superyo1000]

:rolleyes: Ryu players are really spoiled!! sigh

…seriously

[Nitro263]

Thanks for explaining my point as to why Viper is allowed to combo into ultra in many ways. Good stuff.

LOL, if that’s the case, then you don’t have a point at all. You were talking about how hard Viper’s Ultra was to set up. The fact that she can combo it in many ways off of just about everything she has means it’s not hard to setup, execution bar or no. So now you excuse it instead, using the reasons she’s not top tier?

Sorry dude. We’re talking about Ultras, and now you just don’t have a consistent point.

Sadly enough, you don’t understand the point at all. You go on to explain how those 3 setups semingly never happen in high-level play (keep dreaming), and completely ignore how all three of them are better than Gen’s Wallkicks. Nice.

You haven’t explained how they’re better than Gen’s Wallkicks. I explained that a naked or horribly timed jumpin on Ryu is no more common than a whiffed, mistimed or predictable special, or an ill advised Focus Attack, which are things that a wallkick can punish with proper spacing and good reaction time. None of that is common in high level play. Ryu’s setups are safer on block, that’s about it. Wallkicks are still an Ultra setup for Gen. So is Crane cr.LK. Gonna tell me that’s not used either?

Its simple, if you like to exercise your brain by thinking. Yeb is without a doubt one of the best (if not the best Gen in the US. Please don’t take that lightly. Even with his great execution and understanding of his character, he would probably be crushed by Daigo. The point is, Gen is just not a good character, and saying its ok for Ryu to have easy ultra links just because Gen does, is ludacris.

If you want to exercise your brain, start with your vocabulary. The word is ludicrous. Ludacris is a rapper. One of my favorites in fact. Also, what you seem to be missing about that is the concept of being #2 in the world. The best player in the U.S., Justin Wong, gets crushed by Daigo. Sure, Yeb’s a great player, but in the face of the strongest players in the world, who the fuck is Yeb?

You’re implying that Daigo would only beat Yeb if they fought because Gen’s not a good character, and not because Daigo is the best Ryu player in the world, on the top of the best SFIV competitive scene in the world. Which is retarded. Making excuses for a hypothetical match between 2 high level players? Is that a joke? Especially since Yeb isn’t even the best player in America, and America isn’t shit compared to Japan? :lol:

Ryu already has easy Ultra links. For Ultra I. Saying that it’s ok for Ryu’s Ultra II to be impossible to setup fully (other than the generic Ultra setups), and therefore made worthless by Ultra I just because of the “hard Ultra setups” of other characters is stupidity.

Especially when most of them aren’t hard. Gen’s are either risky (wallkicks), costly (P Super), or situational (cr.LK Crane). Not hard. Viper’s are easy to setup, with an execution bar.

And being difficult to land full Ultra is worlds better than being impossible. If Ryu has full Ultra II setups that are risky, costly, or situational, then he’ll have limited opportunities to use it, but will still be able to with some degree of reliability. As it should be. What don’t you get about Ryu’s partial Ultra does shit damage that’s not worth it?