XD I never claimed to main him, or even come close to doing so. I just know how to use him.
That’s not what your signature says buddy. But I do understand your point, there should be added value with ultra II that ultra I does not provide. Chun Li is a perfect example of this, her second ultra gives her the ability to combo off it easily whereas her ultra 1 doesn’t combo but does more damage but there are other uses for it such as punishing fireballs.
I just don’t see ryu’s metsu shoryuken having any additional added value, if it has the same setups as metsu hadoken and did more damage then there’s no incentive to pick ultra 1. If it did chunky damage but have little ways of connecting the full ultra then its going to suck if its anything like ken’s ultra 1.
Make the Shoryuken a 60 frames charge move.
Because Mestu Hadoken has a ridiculous amount of setups, while Metsu SRK has minimal. I never said that Metsu SRK should be comboable where Metsu Hadoken is.
Comboing Viper’s normals into ultra require more skill and execution than any of Ryu’s ultra setups. Burning kick only works in corner, EX Knuckles is slow, and EX seismos are really only used in combos. Even then, Viper is a harder character to master than Ryu is.
No.
Gen’s wallkicks are slow as hell, if you get hit by them, you deserve to be ultra’d afterwards. Gen is overall just bad and requires alot of practice and great execution to be good with.
The whole point I’m trying to make is that all of the characters I listed are not as good as Ryu Ultra-wise, so why should he get alot of setups for such a powerful Ultra?
Well, your statement is wrong, I guess you’re better at Ryusing.
this thread is so pointless,ryu doesnt need a buff or a nerf just to be left as is.other characters with lop sided abillities and inconsistency need your ideas like how abel is a rush down character with a slow walk(my opinion) and cannot combo into his f.mk on crouching characters, or how sim is slow and cant chipp 4 shit,and he is way slower than he has been in any other game.why is his yoga flame have such shitty range? why is kens srk not as good as ryus!?!?!why does guile/vega put out such low damage(my opinion)why is bison not the beast he used to be? and most of all y put dan in the game if their not going to make him playable on a high level?! i know he is a joke character but i know their are many ppl that really use him!(he isnt that bad in sf4) i just think weighing options of metsu haduken and srk isnt going anywhere
Wanting a high damage ultra to be relatively easy to combo, IS wanting ryu stronger, since that’s about the only thing he doesn’t have in this game. If you can play ryu in THIS game and truly feel you need more, YOU are the whiner. Hell, lots of people complain about sagat or rufus or balrog, but the reason their threads aren’t as long is because none of those users are dumb enough to ask for more. Hell, you’re trying to imply that viper and gen have it easy in your one post…wow.
Ask a guile player how well that works. In my opinion, that’s very well reasoned, vega and Guile both have the worst ultras. No setups, difficult and extremely limiting motion, damage that’s not exactly threatening, lots of ways to miss the whole thing
i dont see how Vegas is all that bad for an ultra that goes through fireballs, the chip it does and the Risk/Reward factor is not all bad. Guiles is debatable but as far as using it as an AA, at the very least Guile is relatively safe where Fei will get a wakeup Ultra due to the pushback on his Ultra. None of them have high damaging ultras nor do they really have setups to go into full ultra. I do agree that the motion is more difficult for Vega and Guile but that mainly only applies for Guile. Vega actually needs a somewhat funky motion so he can go off either side of the wall.
it’s bad cause you have to predict it. it’s slow as hell cause of the extra movement to the wall and by the time you actually start going forward most of the time they can block it. it’s not like chun’s or abel’s. they have a much longer to react and still get the hit. the risk/reward? who are you playing? miss an ultra w/ anyone and you’re guarantee to get comboed/ultra afterwards.
You obviously don’t play Vega. His ultra is terrible. Wacky motion to pull off, only useful against fireball characters…and even then good players wont throw out fireballs when you’re sitting on a charge.
Risk/Reward isnt that bad? Vega can be punished by any Ultra if blocked, landing it is near-impossible in high-level play, and it it only does 450 Damage when fully charged (imagine without claw).
Good chip damage? What? When? The chip damage is less then normal Sky High Claw.
Vega’s ultra is just barely better than Guile’s because it goes through fireballs and can punish certain attacks that Guile’s ultra can’t, like Blanka ball.
Oh yeah, if the opponent is in the middle of a Focus attack while you perform your ultra, they can simply backdash and you’ll go right through them. Awesome right?
lol okay i ran into training mode with Vega just before. I take back what i said about the risk reward thing, yeah he can be punished on block ultra by most of the cast’s ultras. Palm faced
On a side note, at least Vegas ultra does armorbreak. Fei Long’s ultra can be absorbed on reaction and backdashed into anything. Thanks for correcting me on the Vega stuff tho.
There’s not enough room for ALL the characters I’m versed in. Ryu/Sak/Cam are just my top 3, and I save the rest for casuals/player matches. but I practice 12 characters. Sagat’s not one of them.
Yeah, you get it. It doesn’t need the same setups. In fact, for all Ryu’s Ultra I setups, it really boils down to 3 being important:
SRK FADC Ultra - Reversal, Used from anywhere.
AA LP SRK/Trade SRK > Ultra - Meterless, overall best AA Ultra option
EX Tatsu > Ultra (corner)- Highest damage for only 1 EX bar. Situational setup.
The rest of them aren’t really important. Now, say he got 1 of those 3 (EX Tatsu), and maybe one from the other setups to land full Ultra II. That gives it added value in the heavy damage, but still keeps it viable as an alternative to Ultra I. As long as Ultra II can’t fully combo off SRK FADC from anywhere, Ultra I will still be preferable to players who want a more reliable damage option.
As well it shouldn’t. Now, if Metsu Shoryuken has minimal setups, and doesn’t combo fully, for pitiful damage, why should it ever be used over Metsu Hadoken?
…so what?
To someone who practices Viper, and particularly HJC Ultra, why does this matter? Does it having an execution barrier somehow make a character less effective when being used correctly? By that logic, Sentinel must suck in MvC2. Or are you saying that being hard to do makes anything ok somehow? In that case, Ryu having all of Metsu Hadoken’s setups for Metsu SRK is fine, as long as he has to SJC it.
Who said anything about a lot of setups? I clearly said one or two, which is about the same as the characters you listed. Plus, this is Ultra-wise we’re talking about, so what the hell does overall character strength and ease of use have to do with it? If you get hit with an AA LP SRK, or a j.MP air to air, or cornered and hit with an EX Tatsu, you deserve to be Ultra’d as well. You act like just because it’s a difficult setup, or it has an execution barrier, it’s impossible. When you’re playing against tournament level players who all practice execution and actually master their playstyles (or at least come close to it), an execution barrier means little. Difficult setups are still used if the opportunity presents itself.
Everybody requires a lot of practice and great execution to be good with. Unless your standards of “good” are extremely low.
Sure am. Check the sig. And when you can’t catch Bison’s Ultra off a j.MP, MP, or a well timed AA from 1/2 - 3/4 of the screen away depending on what your opponent is doing, you let me know, cause obviously I was doing it wrong when I did it.
You suck at inferring. Being easy to combo can only really one thing. It has a low execution barrier, and it works in a large variety of situations. That’s Ryu’s Ultra I. For Ultra II, there really isn’t any way to mess with the execution barrier to make it more difficult to use. He doesn’t have any special cancelling ability, and the QCF x2+KKK motion is pretty much set.
But what’s so easy about having one situation specific setup like EX Tatsu in the corner? Unless your opponent has a habit of hugging the wall of a stage, it’s not that easy a setup. At this point I have to ask if you’re aware that Ryu already has a new Ultra. It’s not something more that anybody’s asking for. He’s already got it. I’m asking for what he is confirmed to have to be worth using in a fight against somebody decent at this game. You’re complaining about how broken it would be just by being worth using. Whiner.
Plus, I never said that Viper or Gen had it easy. But Viper can chain Ultra off of many situations, including ones that no other character has. Chaining Gen’s Ultras off of his limited situations requires hardly any execution at all. Blanka, Dictator and Honda aside, if you think Fouts’ list of hard to setup Ultras somehow equates to “not being able to setup full Ultra”, you’ve probably never played anyone good with any of those characters.
LOL!!! Wow man…is this a joke? You don’t even need to main either of them to see this isn’t true…infact even if you’ve never played against them you should know better than to say this by now. Good chip damage?? Compared to what? I almost want to go to practice and see if it even does 50 chip.
Ok vega just doesn’t have a better ultra than fei long. Infact fei longs probably sucks least out of all bad ultras.
Like someone else said, top tier characters don’t need an ultra that fills in what little “disadvantages” they have and ends up making them stronger. What if sagat players argued that his second ultra should do less damage but have far more setups than ultra one? “Omg if it’s not useful why choose it rite?”
Yea, noone in that thread would take such a foolish argument seriously, is it THAT different in this thread?
Depends on which Ultras you consider bad. You’re right though. Vega’s is too slow to punish most things. Guile’s just sucks. It’s not worth it in any respect.
Actually, why wouldn’t they? Tiger Destruction already works off his most versatile Ultra setup, and has a good amount of them besides. What is going to be the point of Tiger Cannon? Maybe it’ll have less setups, and they’ll nerf the Tiger Destruction damage to compensate? Better than Ultra I having all the advantages, and Ultra II being useless fodder.
I don’t get how this is difficult to get. If ryu’s Ultra II combos easily and deals out more damage than Ultra I nobody will ever pick the Metsu Hadooken. If ryu’s Ultra II doesn’t combo but does epic damage nobody will pick it and will stick with the old Ultra. If you have an ultra that’s exactly the same in terms of damage and combo ability then there’s no difference and Capcom just wasted a lot of time putting an Ultra in the game that basically changes nothing.
Look, the point is that we know Ultra II does more damage. As a result for balancing reasons Capcom will reduce if not altogether remove the move’s combo potential - giving it combo potential and insane damage will basically turn Ryu into sagat and that would be a shame considering how well balanced he already is. Or they could let it combo but make it so the damage scales it it is comboed (like Cammy’s fadc into ultra setups now) but that would defeat the purpose. The idea is to chose an Ultra not so that you can continue to play how you’ve been playing up to here either way but to let you pick an Ultra that suits your play style more. For other characters with shitty Ultras the idea is to have something that makes up for their shortcomings. For those who already have the tools it’s about giving you a chance to try something different.
Not to mention whining about it not being useful is going to sound petty to everyone else who hasn’t been maining anyone from the easy ultra setup land league of ryu/sagat/balrog/rufus.
As for the Tiger Cannon I think the purpose is to have something that functions at range. So that sagat can keep away and possibly land some damage. I doubt it’ll hit very hard though so it’ll be probably be one of those “easier to land but less dammage” kind of moves.
There is a reason Ryu is higher on the tier list than Viper is. Viper takes time and practice to be good with and master all of her ultra setups. Doing that with Ryu takes what…no time at all? Even then you have to figure the threat that Ryu posses with ultra and meter. Playing as Ryu is child’s play compared to playing Viper, a good Viper. All of Ryu’s ultra setups are simple, Viper’s take practice, execution, and timing, of course I would respect it more, and live with getting hit by it. I’m not saying Ryu is easy to be good with, but his ultra setups are easy, real easy.
Funny how all of those examples are easier to land than Gen’s Wallkicks, plus they are far more threatening. Lp SRK completely nullifies jump-ins, and even if it trades you get ultra. J.MP can be used on reaction to jump attacks, though you don’t see it much, its still highly possible. EX Tatsu does decent chip damage and is relatively safe if blocked, free ultra in corner if it lands. Are you seriously saying these setups are comparable to wallkicks? Wallkicks, slow startup and very easy to block. Wow.
Gen has enough problems, he deserves an easy-to-setup ultra. Even so, Gen is probably one of the most challenging character to play as, Ryu is arguablly the easiest. Even Yeb would hardly be a match for Diago, and you know Yeb is damn good with Gen.
So what would be the point of having that one setup if people would just avoid walls? Look, Metsu SRK shouldn’t fully combo. The most powerful ultras in the game dont fully combo (Final Atomic Buster, Raging Demon, Tiger Destruction).
I know what you want, and I can’t blame you. You basically just want to see the full animation of his Ultra II. This would be fine as long as it has big damage scaling, I’d say 350 when fully charged (after 1 hit) would be fair. Though it still needs less setups than Metsu, obviously. Two max.
Ok, as far as combo potential. You CAN do SRK>FADC>U2, but, you don’t get the full animation. It’s like how in some situations Gouken’s ultra is like his super. Maybe you get the full animation if your SRK is a counterhit.
I highly doubt you can EX hadoken>FADC>U2 unless it’s directly in the corner. I think it’s pretty safe to say you can’t land it after a trade SRK or an AA LP SRK.
I am actually betting you can land U2 off an air-to-air j.MP.
Surely there will be some match-ups where U2 will be a better choice, and others where it won’t. It will probably work very similarly to Ken’s shinryuken.
Did you really just write that?
Lol at Tiger Destruction not fully Comboing.
I’m amazed people are wanting Ultra 2 to have full combo on derp xx FADC when so many characters already don’t get full combo on theirs (Cammy, Fei) have shit ultras (Vega and Guile) dont combo period (Gief, Akuma) or have no chance to land it vs certain characters (Fuerte vs any opponent that can change direction in mid air)
By itself, Tiger destruction is 13 hits, after TU > FADC > Ultra, Tiger destruction only lands 10 hits. Add in the fact that only 2 hits of the final uppercut land in corner, and you can easily see that the ultra doesnt, wait for it kids, fully combo.
Yes, have a problem?