i concur.
I think some people just whine to the point where they do not make any sense.
Huge damage and combo’ing ability should be almost mutually exclusive of each other for a high tier character. How would you feel if Akuma had combo-able setups into his raging demon? The idea of the Metsu SRK being a punisher, anti-air tool sounds fair to me, and it adds reasonable amount of variety to his game. Easy hit confirms would be pretty overpowered.
Yea, i can’t really think of one reason ryu needs to have a high damage, easy-combo ultra…perhaps because that’s one advantage he doesn’t have in this game while he’s awesome at about everything else?
Again, this is why the ryu thread is so much larger than anyone else. Ryu mains are the only people with a high tier character who have the nerve to want him stronger.
indeed. ryu is fine as he is. he doesn’t need any buffs or nerfs and should implement that Ultra II in a way that changes up his playstyle for those who want it without conferring any additional advantages.
I think the problem is that Ryu has no easy matchups (mostly just 5-5s which to means screams well balanced) and the perception with most players is that if you lose against a particular character too frequently it’s because there’s an imbalance… most if not all the changes requested in this thread would play too heavily in Ryu’s favor. There’s also a comment to be made about how ryu is sort of the gateway character for most people. I don’t want to call most of the whiners scrubs because some do have legitimate questions regarding the character’s design and the game’s overall balance but walking away from ryu and thinking “damn, this guy needs improvements” is absurd.
What would be the point of doing that, honestly, other than nerfing Ryu for the sake of Vega?
Vega would have better footsies if his OWN hitboxes were better. As it stands, his normals have shit for priority. It’s not even Ryu’s fault…it’s just Vega was poorly designed in this game.
Ryu doesn’t need to change…but rather all the bad characters just need to be brought up. This is coming from someone who currently mains a character that is probably 4.5-5.5 vs Ryu (Gouken)…and planning on switching to a character who probably will fare WORSE than 4.5-5.5 (T.Hawk).
I’d go as far as saying Sagat in his SFIV state would’ve been fine for SSFIV, as long as everyone else was buffed so that they could deal with him better.
i guess thats somewhat true if you give the rest of the weaker cast Zangiefs HP and Damage Output.
You took my quote out of context. I was simply stating that one nerf for one character could open up huge possibilities for others in that matchup. Do I want this change? No, I would rather Vega having great footsie against everyone, not just Ryu.
Exactly. Based on Nitro’s logic, using an ultra competitively that has no comboability is useless. This is totally false. Just think about the ways you can land Mestu Shoryuken, and its possibly properties.
- Maybe it has faster startup than Metsu Hadouken, allowing for his ultra to punish certain attacks mestu srk cannot.
- If you can punish jumpins with SRK, why not Metsu SRK? It has better vertical range than Mestu Hadouken, so it shouldn’t be hard.
Why do all ultra have to have comboability to be useful? Why not just give them separate properties to make each useful on their own ways? This promotes diverse playstyle, and keeps gameplay fresh and exciting.
LOL, basically the vibe with people like you has been that giving him anything besides a nerf would make him overpowered. Considering Akuma’s Raging Demon is unblockable, goes almost a full screen, and has mixup setups off his vortex, I don’t see how the comparison applies. Metsu SRK being just a punisher would give it no advantage over Metsu Hadoken. Ultra startup is usually too long to punish most attacks on block. Unless of course, you’re on the level of fighting people who just give you openings for free. In which case, why are you talking about balance?
If I’m going to be using that shit in tournaments, there needs to be a way to make it land. Even if it’s just one semi-reliable way. If not, then there’s no reason to use it over Metsu Hadoken.
OMG, the nerve! Guy, you’re just comical. Apparently wanting a reason to use Ultra 2 is the same as wanting him stronger in your head. And the reason the thread is so long is because of trolls, and whiners like you. The Ryu mains who actually seriously post in here generally don’t want him any stronger in relation to everyone else.
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How fast do you think the startup is supposed to be? Going by the fact that it caught Juri out a backdash, I’d estimate it’s a bit more than 8 frames. (as backdash invincibility generally lasts for about that long).
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Because SRK has a 3 frame startup. You can punish jumpins with Shinryuken and Shin SRK too. It doesn’t make it reliable. I don’t know who you fight, but in the tournaments I attend, people tend not to jump in to the point they can get nailed by a 8+ frame AA. If they jump in when it’s unsafe at all.
Metsu Shoryuken doesn’t have any aspects that will make it more useful in connecting on opponents than Metsu Hadoken. The payoff is greater, yes. But it doesn’t have the horizontal range, and it shouldn’t have as much combo opportunities. Ken’s Shinryuken is considered to be pretty bad exactly because it has little reliable comboability. And even that is more setups than you suggest (you suggesting none).
Like Shinryuken and Shin SRK, Metsu SRK should:
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Have little horizontal range
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Be blockable
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Only connect full damage at the very start of it’s active frames
That said, what besides a reliable combo setup would make such an ultra useful?
To me it seems like some are implying that he can’t use ultra 2 in a combo? Are you saying that HP > Ultra2 etc won’t work?
i THINK hes trying to say that there should be ways to combo into it whether by links or gimmicks. To some extent i have to agree with him, being a Fei player, i actually have 0 ways to land his full ultra outside of the universal FA or Jump RH or Fierce. Where there should be ways to land it though, having as many ways to do it as Ryus Ultra I is a little too ridicoulous.
Of course. Unless the Ultra is as weak as Ryu’s Ultra 1 or weaker, there should never be ways to land it out of virtually any situation.
But that’s exactly what I’m saying. Fei’s Ultra is considered bad because he has 0 real ways to land it. No combos, no reliable setups.
Does anyone call Gouken’s Shin Shoryuken broken? He only has like 3 ways to set it up. One of them’s a grab even. That’s how Ryu’s Metsu SRK should work, even if neither of his setups are grabs or work from anywhere.
On top of that, Ryu players have a choice now. It’s not like in SFIV where the ultra you have is the Ultra you have and you have to live with it. We already have the weak Ultra with a whole bunch of setups. Sure, the new Ultra does a lot more damage, but if there’s no way we can ensure that we get that damage, there’s no reason to pick it over Metsu Hadoken in any fight. Unless it’s against a scrub anyway.
Fixed.
On a side note Ryu’s Ultra doest do terrible damage for the many ways he can land it. Cross Up, St. HP> Ex Tatsu> Ultra in corner takes about 60%(on 1000HP characters) and takes no skill to do. They should make Ryu’s Ultra II similar Kens current Ultra.
I don’t remember suggesting “none” at all.
I said that because of its suppossed big damage, Mestu SRK should not fully combo. I never said it couldn’t partially combo. Most every Ultra that can fully connect in a combo (universal combo’s such as j.fierce and FA excluded) is hard to setup (Dictator, Abel, Viper, Chun, Gen, Boxer, Ken, Blanka, Honda)
Note : For chun and boxer, I’m referring to 1-frame jab links.
Considering the fact that Mestu SRK will be stronger than all of these ultras, I see no reason why it should have easier setups than these (EX tatsu in corner, EX fireball in corner, j.mp) Even the fact that it can partially combo in other situations makes it better than most other ultras that I listed.
Choose Metsu Shoryuken for fun and for the challenge. Use Metsu Hadoken if you’re trying to play like your life depends on it. Problem solved?
Well, Honda’s is that bad too. I’d say Guile is as bad, if not worse. j.MK > st. HP > EX Tatsu takes about 35% on it’s own. Similar to Ken’s is fine, as long as he has a couple decent ways to land it. Like EX Tatsu in corner. Ken has Air Ex Tatsu > Ultra I, give Ryu EX Tatsu in corner > Ultra II. I’d be fine with that alone.
@Fouts: If it partially combos for more damage than Metsu Hadoken, what’s the point of Metsu Hadoken? Partial Metsu SRK is rumored to do crappy damage anyway. In which case, why use it over Metsu hadoken?
Viper: Can combo Ultra off NORMALS. as well as Burning Kicks, EX Seismos, EX Knuckles, etc. What?
Dic: j.MP. Also has very good range and can catch opponents out the air from long distances.
Abel: c.HP. It has decent range. It goes through fireballs on reaction.
Chun: Corner links to full animation (character specific). Goes through fireballs on reaction.
Blanka: Ambiguous crossup on wakeup. Tied for most damaging Ultra in the game. Does most chip damage in the game. and still sucks.
Honda: Good range, goes through fireballs. Sucks.
Boxer: Partial Ultra links meterless, puts Boxer in his best position.
Gen: P Super. Wall Kicks. Again, what?
Ken: Air EX Tatsu, Counter HP SRK FADC. And most Ken players agree that he should have better full Ultra links than that.
If Ultra I is good, there’s no reason to use Ultra II if it sucks. Not if you’re playing to win. If you’re not, then you shouldn’t care about the balance changes. If it has less setups than Ultras like Blanka and Honda, there’s no reason to use it, because it doesn’t have any special properties either.
Guiles Ultra is probably 2nd Worst next to Fei considering it can be used at least as an AA for some damage. Hondas on the other hand can go through Fireballs and does a load of damage and pushes him quite far back even if blocked. Even though Fei’s can go through Fireball if timed right, even on hit, the push back is so huge you end up eating your opponents ultra.
Is it a general rule that count hits always will lead into a full ultra?
Lollerskates, I had to laugh. You obviously don’t play Dictator.
10th character. It’s funny when you catch air tatsus and Akuma’s air fireballs with it. Timing’s a bit strict. Though with as much as you bitch about the game, I’m surprised you play at all.
:lol: