Against Fuerte if the connection is solid you pretty much should have the advantage, provided you’ve got a little experience. If not, here you go:
Put aside your combos, your strategies, your ideas of playing mind games. You have to react. Win or lose, more than likely it will be with your normals. He takes unbelievable damage, so unless you see a huge opening, be patient. What I usually do here is back off and do a few j.HK or j.FP. Right away the Fuerte will realize you know what to do here and he’ll likely take a few seconds to gather his thoughts. From full screen you can chance a few sparks. EX sparks are a pain for him to deal with. Don’t worry about anti-air against him because it’s an easy way for you to get knocked down and you need to stay on your feet.
Do a few slides to gain ground, maybe a FADC to show him you’ve got multiple options if and when he tries to use the Slide. He’ll eventually start his splashes. If you have EX drill you can beat almost everything he does but if not you can use dashes to escape and your longest normals (st.FK, st.FP) to punish. It won’t take long for his health to get low and at that point you can bait a wall flip and use your ultra to punish.
As for when you knock him down, rush in and do your business. Whether you slide–>throw or go for the cross up, you’re likely to get one combo in and then you gotta retreat. If they have ultra try to bait it out of them. Do a spark motion but don’t hit punch then jump away, see if they bite (works on Abel as well). I also think I’ve escaped his ultra by sliding after he was knocked do; since it has to travel forward it misses you. I think.
If you get knocked down: Backdash, forward dash, FADC, EX soul throw. Use them all, just get the heck out of there and don’t get frustrated even if you feel helpless. Don’t random ultra, it’s never a good idea.
The whole point of Fuerte is to get you to panic when everything you know isn’t working. Well, if you panic you lose more often than not. Hopefully this post helps a few of you out.
Hi, new to the forums. Longtime lurker and firstime poster. Anyways, I main Rose and am pretty casual as far as SF4 is concerned.
I’m having trouble against one of my friends who is a Honda player. We play locally so no trouble with lag or anything. But the main problem I’m having is against his j.hand of god (j.fp). I cant seem to Soul Throw(normal or EX) him reliably and c.fp trades alot with it. He likes to j.fp > HHS. I eat alot of chip from it and cant seem to get out of it.
If he likes to jump in on you simply slide under him and throw him. If your AA’s aren’t working reliably stop banging your head against the wall and just avoid them all together. After a few times of that he’ll understand he will need to find a new way in instead of jumping at you.
As for other options, if you do an EX soul throw late you will catch him. The EX ST has some invincibility at start up so you have to wait till the moment before he gets to you. Or if you have it, ultra him on jump in. Rose’s ultra is a nasty AA move and if your timing and spacing is right, it will beat virtually every jump in attack in the game. Her ultra is god like in it’s ability to shut down aerial attacks.
Here’s something interesting I figured out a little while ago that I thought I might share with you guys. Rose’s soul throw beats Rufus’s messiah kick (both EX and normal version) this really shuts down one of his best moves and limits him somewhat.
Here’s a vid of my G2 final vs a 4800GP Rufus.
[media=youtube]QG1krIHY3xk[/media]
The 1st soul throw was just a reaction and I was quite surprised that it beat his messiah kick as I was expecting just a jumping attack from him (i was trying to catch one of his dive kicks). But then after that I got really curious if it was only a random event or if indeed his messiah kick can be shut down with her ST, and yes, it’s confirmed, her ST will take out his messiah kick as I do it several times to him in the vid.
Yeah, usually when I slide under and try to throw he techs. I can catch him with the ultra pretty well when he jumps, he knows to not do that when I have a bar ready. Its really just at the beginning of the match when we both have no bar, though.
EX Soul Throw late works most of the time, but sometimes I’m to late on my reaction and end up eating something for the whiff. I’ve got to learn to use FA’s successfully as a counter too, that might help.
There is nothing remotely safe about whiffing messiah kick at mid range. I can’t imagine any character in the roster not having a tool to deal with that. The start-up and recovery on that shit is so severe Rose could probably just as easily ultra it on reaction.
Rufus has way better options to close distance(especially on Rose) than random messiah kicks. I’m not trying to discredit your find. It’s as legitimate as punishing any OTG special, but really, no decent Rufus is going to give you STs in this manner.
Well if he’s conditioned to tech your throws after aa slide, you can always try neutral jumping to bait and punish the whiffed throw. I think it’s better to do this than try to throw him because he can just Oicho throw you . Have you tried close s.RH to AA it? Since it’s happening early round and not when you have ultra, how about going air to air with him? I know the hitbox on this particular jump-in is ridiculous, but maybe Rose has something that just sweet spots it. If not the worst case scenario is you trade in mid air(I hope) and you both build Ultra which IMO is more important for Rose in this matchup. FA is indeed a good answer used sparingly. If you rely on it too much he’ll probably start empty jump Oicho throwing you. Of course blocking is a good option too. :tup:
Do you normally sweep that often? If your opponent ever tries an Ultra it’s guaranteed to land. Anyway, yeah you can soul throw his messiah kick, you can also use pretty much any other anti-air if you time it correctly.
I don’t think I’ve ever run across a decent or good Rufus who actually throws that move out randomly, though. The EX version if I bait it (and understandably so), but not the regular one. Although the EX one is similar in that you can counter it if you’re patient enough.
Anyhow, Honda is a tough one. I don’t know if Rose can actually counter his j.FP. I would honestly try to jump with LK and live with the low damage it deals. Dashing or sliding or neutral jumping is dangerous since he can do that command throw.
I normally don’t try to sweep quite as often, but against Rufus I can usually catch him and score a knock down if he tries a poke. I purposely do the sweep after a little hit string to catch him if he tries his c.hp or a sweep. Rose’s sweep has longer range and better startup than his sweep and it also has better startup than his c.hp does. I caught him with it several times as you saw. It’s just a simple c.lp, c.lp, c.lk, sweep. I know it isn’t a “combo” per se, but it works against some characters to catch them. I would never to that against a shoto though because half of them are mashing out a dp during your block string hoping for an opening. In their case I’ll do a c.lp, c.lp, c.lk, c.mp string then stop to see if they are mashing dp then punish their whiff.
Neutral jump after aa slide is a good Idea, I didn’t think of that.
As for going air to air, the hitbox is crazy. I can only seem to catch him if I jump first in anticipation, which is rare, and most of the time I eat something for an unsafe jump-in. I’ll try close s.RH, as well.
I wish I was brave enough to complete the combo string but with latency being different from match to match I usually stop after the lk and do the same thing…punish if they whiff, complete combo if they don’t.
Can someone give some advice on how they deal with Abel? I think I just need to know the basics on what leaves him vulnerable. For example, if I’m blocking a COD string, the throw will almost always get me after blocking the first 2 hits. Thats probably the stupidest thing ever, but I can’t find basic info on what can stop it. I don’t seem to have time to jump, reversal, or even jab. I just get thrown.
Also, is there a trick to the throw timing when he rolls? More often then I like I whiff the throw and he can do whatever he wants. Do you have to wait until the end of the roll? can it actually cross up your throw attempt making you whiff if you time the throw incorrectly?
Last question- if I ever get reset in the air, what can I do to avoid being command grabbed right on landing? Again, jumping, throwing, and reversalling (with an ex drill or just jab) all seem to lose, even to a non-ex command grab. All of these problems could be my timing, but I’d like to know for sure what does and does not work.
I apologize if this was answered somewhere, this thread isn’t organized too well, I searched for Abel but didn’t find too much.
The COD ends either in a high or a low throw if I’m not mistaking, so you need to block accordingly. Experts say you can spot it during animation. I just gamble the thing. I also try jumping away.
The best trick I think is to try S MK on rolls. The thing goes into the air so it makes you unthrowable, and throwing is what they usually are doing. They whiff, you hit. You can even combo it if its the close version. If they dont throw but try a move a S MK aint that bad anyway.
Overall I have no issues against Abel with the usual sparking, sliding, crossing up and poking (drill pokes are fine too agaisnt his wheelkick). The pain comes from his crossups which are really easy to land for him. After that he can do a safe launcher and cherry-pick a combo. I tend to be always defending against that shit.
Sometimes he lands crossups on your slide by accident, its annoying.
Obviously: dont spark when he has Ultra. That thing really goes fullscreen.
a cute little trick about that, assuming you have enough meters up :
when you both have ultra, and are at range. he WANTS you to spark. just do it : spark, fadc backwards your spark and give him a piece of our beloved shamwow when he’s left hanging his fist in the air.
Pure luck, but wow, it impressed 