Pretty much all she needs right now. If they don’t add anything new, then I’m afraid Rose will be crap in this version as well.
Theres no need to increase damage spiral rather make her ex spiral invincible and screw you for thinking about nerfing U1 her only tools that makes her usefull if you hate u1 deal with it.
I wouldn’t say to just “deal with it” a lot of people have been saying the same thing regarding Rose’s defense. A lot of people just say to “deal with it” if Capcom doesn’t do anything about it.
But I also don’t agree about reducing the damage on it because of the complexity of how to land that ultra. It’s not like you could easily soul spark FADC U1. You actually need 3 ex bars to do this or bait your opponent in different ways. You must also think about the fact that Rose has the lowest damage output of the game and below average health. This is one of her punishing/come back tools, which is why it needs to be a few frames faster if we really want Rose to maintain a stronger/scarier ground game
Um, he didn’t say that he “hated” U1. He just said that if Capcom decided to buff U1 in terms of speed then they could compensate that by nerfing the damage just a tiny bit. It’s all reasonable.
I only said they should nerf the damage if the start up is increased, I would say a minor damage decrease would be a fair price to pay for having such an effective anti air tool, the damage it does right now is obviously the reason it hasn’t had its start up increased. I also understand that she does low damage and that is why I said they should increase the damage on spirals.
Of course I would like to have both as well. Speed and damage, who doesn’t? But since Capcom are dicks and hate Rose, then maybe they would see it as a reasonable buff to speed up the Ultra while nerfing the damage a bit. Rose needs any kind of help she can get right now.
You’re not looking at things objectively at all, the reason U1 has its current speed in the first place is soley based upon the damage, their would be no justification to leave the u1 with such huge damage if it becomes such an effective anti airing tool. There is a reason Abel and Rufus have had there U2 nerfed in the past and it was because they did too much damage whilst being very effective anti airing tools.
Either way I wouldn’t complain if they left the damage the same as it would only be better for me, but it may hard to convince Capcom since they may see it as unreasonable.
Wouldn’t Rose’s U1 also be “easy to hit” if the start up is increased?
Ryu’s U2 got buffed for a few reasons:
[LIST]
[]It had very poor verticle range range
[]Didn’t and still doesn’t have a good horizontal range
[]Often didn’t go into the full animation which does less damage(because of its poor range)
[]Little reason to use it when he has the shoryuken that can anti air and go into ultra 1
[/LIST]
Rose’s U1 covers good horizontal and vertical range and is not too far off what ryu u2 can do in terms of the damage it can do.
I look at it otherwise:
Overall Ryu has better damage output / good defense / has FADC combos with both ultras or even meterless etc
Overall Rufus has the pressure game / the ex messiah kick / meterless ultra 1/ U2 with full projectile invincibility shutting down all projectiles games etc
Overall Rose is “ok” in offense but very bad damage output / poor defense / below average health / no FADC combos with U1
We also have to consider how the character is in general. Rose’s U1 is meant for punishing. Just like Chun li’s U1 has 7 frame startup AND full projectile invincibility AND travels further than Rose’s U1 and does 460 damage.If they keep the damage the way it is and decrease the startup, it will be much more of a threat and will force people to stay on the ground, where she excels, making her ultimately overall better.I would understand if her ultra had less startup + full invincibility + travels further, like Chun li’s U1. But that’s not the case…
But I will consider a damage nerf only if they make it fast enough to be able to have a FADC combo with it (cr.HP xx soul spark FADC U1) now then maybe it will be justified but it shouldn’t be much (30-40 damage less maybe) since overall her damage sucks.
I’d give anything to just let her be invulnerable from head to toe while the scarf is still extending during U1 leaving everything else in tact. But that certainly wouldnt fix her problems.
Character design and weaknesses are no reason to ever have an ultra be stupid good… that reasoning makes no sense and is just lazy design, if you think rose has bad defence and low damage then you shouldn’t be looking for an ultra to make up for it, u2 was nerfed because of this. Seems like you guys are trying to have your cake and eat it, either way i’m done with this discussion since I don’t see this going anywhere.
character design has a lot of importance in it. You are totally wrong. Having akuma with 1k health / 1k stun + the way he is would be reasonable ? If character design isn’t a good reason to justify how powerful a move can be they should’ve left Sagat the way he was in vanilla.
Rose has bad defense and not so good offense. You would rather play it safe and punish your opponent or play it rushdown ? Of course its always better to alternate between defense and offense but you will have much more chances to land U1 if you play it safe and study your opponents moves than being in his face 24/7. This is how it is supposed to work.
U2 was nerfed because people don’t know how to block/ are afraid of taking chip damage and because Capcom still didn’t find a proper way to fixe Rose’s defense. It was just a bandage to cover her weaknesses. Even if the startup is like…9 frames it still won’t be THAT easy to catch someone. You have 4 frames to make your U1 reach the opponent before he touches the ground (unless his/her jumps are floaty). Add the recovery frames or startup frames or your soul sparks and I’m pretty sure it will still not be as simple as it sounds.
to be honest, Rose shouldn’t have nerfed damaged with U1 for a trade in faster startup. She doesn’t need nerfing in anything she needs buffing in lol.
like…it’s ok to ask for reasonable buffs for Rose and not expect a nerf in return because she doesn’t have anything threatening in her current state to be asking for a nerf.
You guys are taking what I said an taking it entirely out of context, i’m talking about ultras only. You guys are saying that an ultra should be intentionally made better than it should because of the characters short comings instead of doing the obvious and fixing the fundamental problem with the character.When I say damage nerf I am only talking like a small 30-40 damage reduction not like a 80-100 reduction. If you want more damage then ask for an increase on specials and/or normals which is something that you’re going to be using frequently instead of relying on an ultra that you might be lucky to land twice in a round.
Characters like Gouken(U1) and El Fuerte(u2) had a design philosophy of ridicules damaging, easy to land ultras to make up for poor design, and now they have been nerfed for that reason.
It’s like the word nerf is like the plague around here… didn’t mean to hurt your feelings chums.
I would totally take a 400 damage ultra if I could land it as easily as Ryu’s or Rufus’s. Problem of course being it will never happen nor will we have the utility they have. Still, nice to dream.
Give me FADC into U1 plzzzz
I’d definitely sacrifice 20-30 damage for a 2-3 frames faster U1. I always predict the opponent right but always end up catching them a few frames too late =/
If I was talking about the ultra only, I wouldn’t be talking about how ryu and rufus are overall. Otherwise I would say that ryu’s U1 does crap damage and should be buffed.
I said it before. If Capcom had chosen to buff Rose offensively then in no rights we couldn’t complain about her defense. She would’ve been balanced with an outstanding offense and mediocre defense. But I would prefer her keeping the offensive methods as it is and buffing her defense to a point where it is reasonable.
Talking about nerfing Rose ? Why ? From Super -> AE -> AE2012 A lot of character have only seen but buffs. Rose got nerfed at places that are not even justified:
Vanilla -> Super…nerf Soul Piede ? why ?
Vanilla -> Super…nerf her Sweep ? why ?
Super -> AE…meter gain nerf ? U2 nerf THAT MUCH ? cr.mp nerf ?
how can you justify a nerf on a mid-tier character that has only some stuffs that makes her unique in her own way without being OP or broken while all I see is buffs + fix or Guy/Cody/Adon/Ibuki etc.
You’re taking things out of context yet again, It has nothing to do with Rose being mid tier i’m only saying if they were to increase the start up of U1 then it would make sense to make the damage slightly lower. You and zangief2000 seem salty from Rose’s unjustified nerfs from super to AE and so you just seem to have a problem dealing with any type of negative change assiociated with Rose, even if it is constructive and will lead to something better.You’re regurgitating the same “defence sucks so we deserve retarded good ultra” which means that you have not even read what I have written.
Gouken’s backthrow did not add to damage scaling, so they fixed that. And Fuerte’s U2 did like almost 600 damage and it started up in 3 FRAMES.