First of all, I said she goes fairly even with top 10.
As in she doesn’t definitively lose to all of them; she goes fairly even with Sagat, fairly even with Viper, fairly even Bison.
But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a hard match up and or she doesn’t lose the match up, I just wouldn’t say it’s a 6-4.
What I find hilarious is that besides maybe 2 characters, at various times every matchup for Rose has been stated as in her favor, and not in her favor. It’s almost pointless to debate. She is such a basic character that your own weaknesses will determine what your bad matchups are. I, for example, lose to random throws, which unbelievably EVERY character in the game can do, what a huge mistake on Capcom’s part. I vote 4-6 for every matchup ever.
Seriously though, everyone treats 4-6 like its a done deal. People say Rose beats Guile hands down. 6-4 matchup. But that means she still loses 4 of 10… So Rose has to make 2 more mistakes than the Guile instead of just 1 more. In a game you should probably lose 1 round. And in a set you should probably go to 3. Its really not that uneven.
Arguing between 6-4 and 5-5 level is basically saying ‘look at all these awesome tools Rose has against XYZ. add huge list She’s so good, that you should lose ONLY half the time!’
I think everyone here can admit that her Special Moves need tweaking of some kind to be useful in more matches, at least. It seems like everyone has mentioned that Soul Spark is too slow, Soul Reflect is useless outside of reflecting fireballs, and Soul Throw is a mediocre anti-air. Even Soul Spiral has some problems on its EX version with the vulnerable frames.
Now that Soul Spark gains the same meter it did in Super, I can deal with it being slow. It was stupid to lower it to 20/20 when it comes out so much slower than anyone else’s projectile. 30 meter gain is higher than any other character. She will rule projectiles again! In AE, she gained the same meter as Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Dee Jay, and Juri.
I agree with Soul Reflect needing some adjustments. I was thinking… What about giving it hard knockdown properties along with a slight hitbox adjustment? Sometimes I use cr.hp xx mp reflect to get them in the corner, but they get up so quickly that I can’t put too much pressure. If we got a hard knockdown, we could follow up with a hp spark to keep them there, and then follow that with more corner mixups.
You guys know that Shiro lost to Rose in America and Rose in Japan (at the last chance sbo qualifier right? hehe)
But I’m glad to see people posting, it shows that 1) people care 2) that people will agree that Rose, as she is right now, is NOT tourney worthy. You cannot win strictly with just her alone. It isn’t possible. Too many horrible matchups. I was beginning to think Rose players did not like winning with Anton having more posts than anyone rofl.
soul reflect adjustments ?
lp soul reflect - requires less absorbed fireball to make U2 stronger
mp soul reflect - hitbox on projectile same / hitbox vs opponents slighty increased horizontally
hp soul reflect: it can either be:
Geez this is making me realize Rose is the most incomplete character in the SF4 series currently. All the buffed characters in AE 2012 are becoming more viable with new tools and complete(Hakan, Juri, Gen, Cody, etc) while Rose is the only one that did not had a single hitbox, frame, or damage tweaks/buffs. Rose got HP Reflect to ST and thats about it.
Rose vs All the buffed characters of AE 2012 <_<
In super who did she lose to? I honestly really only had problems with Rog and Bison. Occasionally Sagat, Chun, and Fei-Long, but she can definitely fight those 3 in Super. Being 5-5 with most of the cast puts her in the middle, and thats where player skill takes over. As far as 6-4 matchups, I never really saw that big of an advantage over Guile. I don’t count Guy because he’s horrid in Super. Oh and I also had problems with Seth.
man… ex reflext with wall bounce properties into soul throw would be the sickest thing…ahhh! if only >.<
Honda, Cammy, and Rufus as well, IMO.
And Far more in AE. She lost the edge in some match-ups with U2 being taken away and the power of some characters coming up. Not to mention the twins who are like rufus but more vicious.
I’d add Sim and possibly Adon to the list as well.
Pretty much most/any mixup based character sans Abel and characters that can generate an offense while being defensive (Charge characters sans Guile, Fei Long, etc.).
ok so no one took my alteration with rose’s soul reflect to serious I see. bah…
I love those ideas for reflect changes. To be honest, the move needs an overhaul. What is the point of using EX Reflect outside of projectiles? The only difference between the EX version and lp/mp versions is a slightly faster startup and a couple of frames safer. No hard knockdown, no armor break, no invincibility… And it’s an EX move??
it does reflect the fireball with 5% more damage tho…haha.
hmmm tomorrow there’s another location test…I wonder if we will discover anything new ? things have been quiet lately lol
Reflect is exactly what it’s supposed to be; a reflect, and it’s fine the way it is.
Rose doesn’t need an overhaul, all she needs is like a few interesting buffs that would make her a little more scary on the ground.
Because her ground game, while good and fairly scary, it’s not scary enough to justify how bad she loses on wake-up and corner :/.
Either fix her ground game or fix her wake up game, because right now, her ground game isn’t even as scary as Chun Li’s :/.
Rose is not a bad character, but anyone that says she’s complete is crazy. And I’m the last person you would hear say she couldn’t win a major, but dive kicks/burn kicks/vortex/damage output makes it really fucking hard. All Capcom would have to do is add her Alpha Counter and have it activate like Goukens, but you have to use meter to do it(if you aren’t gonna modify ex spiral). It would solve alot of her main issues without people comparing it to Super U2.
Maybe Capcom just likes having top tiers and shit, i dunno…
In Super, Rose was more or less complete (or atleast bandaged) with that Soul Satellite
But now she’s incomplete and she’s tournament viable but not having a good wake up just destines you have to have terrible match ups :(.