I think what we want is 2 frames more of invincibility to cover the 13 frames of startup (it’s at 11 frames of invul now). Even with those extra frames, it could still be easily baited and punished. Stand right outside her throw range and block + punish (throw, command throw, combo off lp or lk - which all lead to knockdowns and more mixups). If Cody can have a move (Zonk Knuckle) that goes through my U1 every single time, I think an EX Spiral with 2 more frames of invincibility wouldn’t render the move OP. It would still get caught by ultras, you can jump back to punish or just stand there… Since it’s -6 on block, there’s something every character can do to punish the crap out of it.
There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s mainly why i picked her. She didn’t have any polarizing matchups. The thing was, in SSF4, she had a lot of matchups in her favor that balanced all the bad matchups. As it is in AE, it’s just a bunch of bad matchups with a couple of really shitty ones. Who does Rose really counter besides Guile? Sagat and Cammy are arguable imo. And the lower half of the cast don’t really count. It’s basically all uphill matches for Rose. Doable I guess…
Rose just beats the lower half of the cast fairly easily.
She goes fairly even with most of the top tier, maybe even beats Makoto and Ken.
I’d go to say that she just goes even with most of the top 10 barring like Yun, Yang, Akuma.
She just doesn’t beat anyone important, but she beats a lot of characters.
As stated above this wont solve the problem of getting light meatied to death on wake up as it will still allow for pressure from say a crouching short to recover before the active frames of EX Spiral kick in which = continued rape and disrespect once our girl is downed.
If this is the case, and the wonder twins got nerfed along with a slight one to Akuma, why bother buffing her at all? lol
Yeah, I continued to say that it would still be baited and punished easily. How much quicker do you think it would have to hit to solve that problem?
because she doesn’t beat important characters that didn’t get nerfs…
and that’s big enough to give her SLIGHT buffs.
Capcom is scared to make Rose a lot better 
Capcom looks at Rose:
I don’t think the rose makoto matchup is clear cut yet. We don’t have many good makoto’s in america that I can think of. Neither do we have a top level rose that has had the chance to run long sets with said makoto to figure out how the matchup should be played at the highest level. So that matchup to me is still unknown and can be argued either way.
And how in the hell is Rose Ken even remotely in rose’s favor. That’s an easy 6-4 Ken’s favor. Anyone who says they know how to block ken’s ambiguous jump ins is full of shit. That’s a shitty ambiguous as fuck fifty fifty where even if you guess right you still eat pressure. It’s probably worse if he starts to mix in empty jump low shorts. Stupid as fuck left right high low mixup. And his DP catches your bdash. His sweep is retarded. Oh, and we can’t forget his stupid stepkick fifty fifty. Ken’s way too underrated as a top tier character.
I wouldn’t go as far as saying she goes even with top tier. It’d be fair to say that those matchups aren’t more than 6-4 at worse generally.
@Saqs
I totally feel your pain. I literally have no idea how to counter yuns who throw cr. short OS w/e at me. Mix that up with meaty divekicks and rose is free on wakeup in that matchup. I tell people all the time to just pressure Rose with meaty cr. shorts.
Make SPIRAL 2 HIT… DISTRIBUTE THE DAMAGE make the second hit the knockdown and make the first hit FADC-able to give her some new combos… fix ultra 1, sparks and ex spiral DAMNIT!
Rose beats Ken in a fireball war, in a footsies battle as well. She can deal with Ken’s mix up fairly decently and his 50/50 isn’t enough to signify him beating Rose.
If that’s the case, every character in the game beats Rose because every character in the game beats Rose while she’s knocked down.
I know the Ken match up and he has a hard time getting in, especially if you have ultra stocked.
Hard to say since im certainly no frame counting expert but best guess would be active between 6-9 to catch the quickest recovering ones.
As far as matchups, outside of Guy and the joke characters i’d be hard pressed to say Rose “beats” anyone in AE.
Rose beats anyone in a fireball war if they don’t know how to throw correct fireballs, which basically means she’s better than the person, not the character. Smarter players won’t throw a fireball at any spot where you can just absorb for free w/o eating follow up pressure or a jump in. Against good players, I’ve never gotten the opportunity to just freely absorb a fireball w/o some sort of risk involved be it an empty jump follow up or what have you.
I don’t how Rose holds her own against the stepkick. It varies from -2 to +2 depending on which of the 5 frames it hits at. The window to punish the move seems so small. It seems to force you to back yourself into a wall. Such a stupid free method of getting in. And most of normals are really good too. He has a good low forward, good crouch strong, a very good sweep, two overheads, and most importantly the stepkick.
I wasn’t complaining about rose’s wakeup. Of course anyone that plays rose knows she’s free on wakeup. I was complaining about Ken’s ambiguous jump in. He basically decides at the last second whether he’s going to land on the right or left which shuts down your bdash, reversal, AND makes it hard to block. Did I mention he can basically hit confirm his EX Tatsu crossup into hit ultra?
The Ken’s i play always bait ultra 1 by jumping in and EX TATSU’ing over rose’s head. Not that hard if you space it and look out for it. Ken is basically Ryu with a way better mixup game.
lol.
Didn’t you see my matches with Banana Ken on the PJS Stream? It wasn’t free or looked 6-4 in Ken’s favor whatsoever.
I play with my local Ken on a constant basis, I’ve spoken to Joon and he mentioned that it isn’t easy for Ken.
No, what you don’t understand is that Rose gains meter every time she throws a fireball, so even though your fireball isn’t hitting, she gains more meter than most other characters in the game with a character. And you also don’t seem to understand the concept that you shut down their fireball because of you reflect. If you shut down their fireballs to where they can’t use it, they lost 1 major tool in their game play; fireballs are super major.
Stepkick has slow start up, and it’s kinda easy to react to with Rose. 11f? anything can easily interrupt it; and no, it’s not easier said than done, it’s fairly easy. Not to mention they can’t follow it up with much; either they do a shoryuken or they continue the blockstring, 50/50; if they shoryuken the risk/reward isn’t in their favor and Rose easily punishes with 200 damage; which is adds up fast.
Rose s. mk deals with most of your problems against Ken on the ground. His fireball game was not great anyway and having a reflect just renders it useless.
Yeah, and what if he has a 50/50 ambiguous cross up? So does Ibuki but Ibuki isn’t a hard match up.
Ken’s can’t do that on the animation frame “try this on for size” because there is a certain angle where they have to do it for it to have the coward copter helicopter effect. If you still throw it out if you see Ken flash, that’s on you; but even then you still have a chance to hit them because he still falls into it regardless. You’re either doing it too early to where it’s easily seen and they haven’t reached the point of the coward copter yet (which is fairly early in the jump). So it’s literally they have to guess. If they match your fireball or jump while you have 2 meters and an ultra; you better as well hit them.
Oh yeah, st. mk is great. in the match up. We have a 50/50 ambiguous safe jump on Ken ourselves. And we have to take into account Rose’s hitbox; it’s harder to do the 50/50 ambiguous j. hp or j.lk on Rose compared to say Chun Li. Sometimes Ken just whiffs because of Rose’s hitbox :/.
Did that stream get recorded? Do you have a link?
I’ve never played a ken that didn’t stand within midrange where he could jump react and jump in on your fireballs. Why would ken stay full screen and let you throw fireballs. In Super she might have gained a lot of meter, but in AE it’s not much of a difference considering the risk you run whenever you do throw a fireball.
Ken’s fireball is not that great of a tool for him. It’s below average at best? Better in the total frame department than Sakura, Sim, and Rose but that’s not saying much. Still shittier than the average that is ryu. He’s not losing much not throwing that out.
Ibuki is floaty as fuck so, EX ST shuts down a lot of her mixups. Ken is not.
How is a crossup, normal jump in, empty jump low short just a fifty fifty? You have to block three different ways. And even if you do, it’s more fifty fifty’s after every block b/c of his karagrab and uppercut. You’re basically getting put in multiple fifty fifty’s in a row after every knockdown considering it’s not that hard to just sort of wing a safejump on rose. What should they be afraid of? A 13 frame reversal? lol.
11f doesn’t really do the move justice as a discription. It doesn’t factor in how far it moves. If it was that easy of a move to punish, then Ken wouldn’t that scary of a character. I’m not saying I can’t do it or it’s impossible, I’m just saying it’s not easy.
After every stepkick, they can either karagrab, blockstring, or uppercut. If you block, you lose to karagrab, neutral against blockstring, and beat uppercuts. If you tech, you beat karagrab, lose to blockstring and uppercut. If you backdash, you beat karagrab, and are neutral against both uppercut and blockstrings. Bdash’ing however means you’re giving up a lot of space and run the risk of letting them stepkick into stepkick.
Saying this matchup is 6-4 isn’t unreasonable.
If everything was as easy as people make it out to be, “just learn to block” “it’s easy to react and punish” “learn to tech,” then Street fighter would be an easy game. Man that means those guys must be beasting on everyone free at EVO. Shit, they’re probably beat all those pros easy. Latif? Pshh just block, tech, and punish, and he’s done. Free.
Makoto can get lamed out by Rose. Rose can just run, Makoto has to chase. Makoto just has to struggle a bit against characters with fireballs. Focus ain’t a parry. Not really much to even describe or depict in the match.
IMO Rose/Gief is in Rose’s favor. What’s this guy going to Really do now that EX green hand doesn’t knockdown? It’s an overall buff to Gief’s 50/50 game but he doesn’t get silly knockdown options to keep Rose free.
hold on
makoto rapes every fireball character. You guys just don’t play good ones. Ken is 5/5 imo, unless he is really good at frametrap/counterhit setups. Then it becomes 5.5/4.5 ken.
anton if rose is as good as you make her out to be in every post, there would be more people playing her.
u2
u1 - invincibility
ex-spiral
makoto is the only character that I only play by rushing her down and not waiting for her to have a chance to strike. Wait. Rushing down with Rose ? Yup.
Anton likes to argue for the sake of it when it comes to Rose sometimes lol. He will readily admit she’s not a good character but on the other hand he will say “she beats a lot of characters” and “she just goes even with most of the top 10”.