EX reflect’s hitbox is ass. It’ll whiff even with people in front of it. IMO there shouldn’t even be a EX reflect.
EX drill. stop fighting it. When EX Drill’s main reason is to finish a actual combo on certain characters? Something’s wrong.
I also want to know how this is a rushing tool. Cause I don’t see it at all.
I think people are confusing ‘fully invincible’ ‘complete invincibility’ and ‘until hitting frames’. Maybe people are talking about 2 different things here.
EX reflect changing would be interesting, I’ll admit. It would have to be a huge change though. They would want to test that, so I think its too late.
How many hit/hurtbox changes were in this update? Many…and since when is popping an invincible/EX Spiral in the midst of frame traps NOT rushdown? Some things shouldn’t need to be clarified but I guess shoulder the load…
How in the world would Rose’s offense be too good if her EX Spiral was fully invincible? It doesn’t go far enough to punish fireballs unless you have godlike reactions and your opponent decides to throw fireballs at point blank, and it’s easily punishable on block. There is something very wrong when your character’s reversal is getting stuffed by frame traps. I can deal with its long startup that can be baited and punished, but getting outright stuffed by something that reversals are designed to counter is unacceptable.
Seriously, she would be just fine if they gave her EX Spiral invincibility and a faster U1 along with her current buffs. Neither of those is something that none of the rest of the cast has like Super U2 was.
buffing ex spiral would be fine. I don’t see how ex spiral is a rushing tool and deffiently not a good one. Its pretty easy to punish at point blank range and when space properly rose would be either at 0 or -2(I’m being nice with these numbers) which means she can either has to block or back dash to be safe or risk it an try a normal. An if the thought of rose gaining invincibily is so scary they could layer it like 1-13 invincibility and 14-15 being a combo of throw and fireball invincibility.
But that’s not her only needed buff and the ppl that think rose players are greedy can choke on it, stop worrying about our request and instead make sure your character is together.
Would it be possible for EX Reflect to have a faster startup since the fireball characters EX Fireballs(except for DJ and Seth) are kinda hard to react to?
Rose fights with level 17 soul power, why can’t she have a move that uses a lot of soul power to be invincible? Rose sucks at zoning. She beats fireball characters because she is and has always been the anti fireball character and yet she doesn’t even do it super well 
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.030141,-117.579982
@acku
Rose would literally shut down ALL fireball characters. No joke.
Hey that’s a pretty good idea Sylhar. Give EX Reflect full invulnerability. It does ass damage and will only work to keep them away and has very little active frames.
@solar
I don’t think EX Reflect was ever meant to be used as a reactionary reflect. I think i’ve only ever hit it a handful of times during a match and only towards the end at that. It occurs when they’re trying to chip me out with EX and they dash forward expecting a block but instead i preempt the reflect. The chances of that situation occurring is very slim and the opponent has to be predictable as is. Probably a safer bet to just block or jump over it.
I think to balance out the EX SPIRAL buff, they could also make it more punishable on block. Let it do what it’s suppose to and be punishable like it’s suppose to. Taking away 1 frame of blockstun would make it more punishable on block.
I thought about what acku said about abel / chun / ibuki / vega special moves that have fireball invincibility just for the fun:
Abel EX CoD : gives armor damage varies between 180dmg/150stun and 240dmg/200stun + untechable knockdown or can FADC into ultra
Chun EX hazanchu: 170dmg /200 stun + untechable knockdown
Ibuki EX neckbreaker: 160dmg/250stun + untechable knockdown
Vega EX roll: 170dmg/180stun + safe on hit
Yun EX shoulder (comparison to Rose’s EX spiral if we were to use it if someone throws a fireball): 130dmg(in 2012)/250stun (no info on stun reduction received I think) can juggle (but not on 2nd hit)
Rose EX spiral: 100dmg/100stun…+ no juggle / techable knockdown
if we talk about wake up options:
Abel:
EX CoD: Armor + 180dmg/150stun and 240dmg/200stun + untechable knockdown or can FADC into ultra
EX Marseille Roll: -
EX tornado throw: 190dmg/150stun + untechable knockdown
Chun:
EX Bird Kick: 170dmg/260stun + puts opponent far away
-Ibuki:
EX Kazagiri: 160dmg/120stun + techable knockdown
-Vega: None or…
EX scarlet Terror (lolz…) 170dmg/250stun + techable knockdown
Yun:
EX DP (or regular ?): 120dmg/200stun + juggle
Rose:
EX spiral: 100dmg/100stun…+no juggle / techable knockdown
This is how I see it.
Alright lets go in. EX Reflect with 3 frame startup, invul, UK, with wall bounce for FADC ST combo. Give it like 50 frames of recovery so its not safe on block lol.
I think they should give rose something game changing. something that would affect the way not only we play the game, but the way people see rose. I’m fine with u2 not having invincibility frames, but i wasn’t fine with adding recovery frames to it, that just wasn’t fair. what would be really neat is if:
and i wouldn’t hate it if they changed soul illusion so that
just to correct you, the recovery is actually the total frames. So to get the REAL recovery, take that number and subtract the startup which should make it:
lp spark : 14 + 38 = 52
mp spark: 22 + 30 = 52
hp spark : 29 + 24 = 53
This applies to everyone else’s list too. However, this still makes rose’s fireball more ass by a wide margin. She generally more horrible than those with bad recovery making her recovery horribad? I don’t know. 52 frames is pretty retarded for a fireball. She’s worse than ryu’s average numbers by 7 frames. Worse than Sim’s shitty numbers by 4 frames. No matter how they fix it, it’s still gonna be ass. But on the bright it does the most damage and (will) build a lot of meter.
Here’s something i find funny. If you get someone in a techable knockdown situation and throw a fireball RIGHT AWAY, they still have enough time to quick recover and jump in to punish you.
[quote="jason87, post: 5793943"frame corrections and sad rose fact[/quote]
they should make each fireball recover faster then. there’s no reason for her zoning to be what it is. sure it’ll be a threat to a good portion of the cast, but when people stop chucking fireballs rose is left with a poking game that does too little damage at once and a zoning game that’s not the toughest to get around. hell let her throw out a fireball while a reflected fireball is out. yeah i said it.
DO SOMETHING. the more i use rose and the more i see/read about the changes she’s given, she’s truly a character you have to be “psychic” with to win.
Need to fix those ex-spiral and maybe a faster hk startup quite decent against jumpers hk + super if you know what I mean. 
I hope you guys realize that st. rh and st. fp aren’t that great as AA. Looking at the hurtboxes, it’s actually quite vulnerable from above. Now cr. fierce on the other hand, if timed correctly is a beast of a move that will trade at worse. It’s just rose has no decent AA when they jump at that specific arc. Your best bet is slide and throw. Usually this’ll force a a tech and will create space between you two. Here’s to hoping piede fixes this.
@ epy0nkaru
I mean even if they fix her fireball, it’ll still be a bad move. At best it’ll be an average move. It’d be too drastic to give her a good fireball. That with her incredible meter gain will make her a pretty stupid character to fight. Fireball spam that creates meter super easy lol? The fireball as is right now is more of a defensive move to create pressure, gain meter, and keep them on their toes and honest. If you’re at fullscreen, you need a way to make them come to you since rose rarely has the advantage if she takes the initiative. ** Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of rose’s fireball, why it is the way is it is, when you should throw it, when the risk is greater than the reward, and just the little details will drastically improve your zoning game. Rose’s fireball isn’t meant to be thrown randomly to chip. Once you start thinking more, you’ll grow to appreciate the little details that make Rose’s fireball unique.**
After it’s all said and done however, I still think Rose’s fireball is just plain ass. But it is what it is.
anyone who purposfully wants to have a bad character just so less people play them are stupid.
Have a feeling we’ll get that ex spiral buff when vega players get their ex st buff.
Which will be never.
I understand that having no viable reversal is what makes rose unique. This is obviously what the devs have in mind for her. But the least they could do is give her better damage on spiral, fireball, soul piede, or shit, more combo options.
For a character that is supposed to be one of the most powerful in the street fighter canon, she sure is weak as fuck and relies on a lot of kicks lol. The least they could do is buff spiral’s damage since it’s her main offensive “soul” move.
The general consensus here seems to be that Rose should have received a few more buffs and I agree. I’m just happy she got no nerfs though since it wouldnt have been a surprise knowing Capcom lol.
However, the majority of current buffs being things Rose actually had nerfed in previous versions proves that either capcom has no clue about how to balance Rose properly or they just really don’t care or both. Maybe some hidden buffs will be discovered in the loc tests and if not then possibly Capcom could do something about it if the Rose community speaks loudly enough. One thing is for sure, Capcom seems to have decided since vanilla they want Rose to be completely free on wakeup so asking for ex spiral invincibility or other reversals is pointless IMO as they would have done it by now.
An idea I really like a lot is Epy0nkaru’s idea of making EX reflect wall bounce (though without the invincibility). If Capcom increase the hitbox of EX reflect so as to make it comboable from cr hp (if it isnt already, I cant say I ever tried lol) or even cr lp cr lk cr mp then wall bounce could lead to soul throw, U2 juggle (not U1) and untechable knockdown (cant remember if wall bounces lead to untechables or not) it would not only make a currently useless EX move useful but it would also improve her mixup game without making it too powerful.
It’s also a good compromise for people asking to juggle into soul throw meterless as it would then require only 1 bar. In addition, using EX reflect in the corner followed by soul throw (or U2 and then soul throw) puts them right back in the corner. A fair trade since you can choose to use hp reflect if you wish, but at the cost of 1 bar it puts them right in the corner again. It would give Rose players a new tool to play with (seeing as it’s pretty set in stone we’re not going to get a viable reversal) and give rise to new resets/wakeup shenanigans with U2. It sounds really fun too on top of it all lol, but the important question remains if this would be too out of place or if Capcom is willing to do something like this in the first place.
I like the idea though 
^ this. The dev see rose as a dalhsim’s like character ( except dalhsim stay away where rose should dash forward poke dash back) so they think that she should never get a real reversal. u2 was designed to be like dalhsim 's u1 as a give me some space ultra.
They nerfed it as a way of saying: “you don’t use rose the way you should, you have too much ultra/meter of ex spiral, you should stay away from your opponent”
The problem is that is not how rose can be played. Her normal are great but not that better of someone like chun, and they both played somewhat similar.
I hope that one day capcom accept that rose don’t fill the role they put her in ( far zooning), and tweak her to accept that she’s must be played much closer to the opponent than designed. which mean, giving her a somewhat better reversal.
What I like about that idea, is that ex reflect is a crappy move now that has no purpose, so it can be upgraded. And that it has crappy hitbox, so that would not be a very good reversal. Capcom will never give rose a shoryuken, but a new, crappy way of getting out of trouble ? that’ more possible. And imo, that all she need
**** She died… and resurrected … maybe she lost some of her powers somewhere in the limbs between life and death realms ^^